Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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SarathW
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Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by SarathW »

Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?
There as six senses namely eye, ear, nose, tongue and mind.
It appears Buddha chose the body as his first contemplation.
Why he did not choose the other five?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by DooDoot »

The Buddha did not "choose" the body to come first.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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bodom
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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by bodom »

Probably because it is the easiest and most tangible object to focus on.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

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Srilankaputra
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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by Srilankaputra »

The nature of all good things is that they come from things that aren’t good, just as lotuses that are fair and lovely are born from mud that is filthy and repulsive. Yet once they rise clear of the mud, they are clean and pure, becoming a fitting headdress for a king, a viceroy, or a courtier, never again returning to the mud. In this they are like the earnest meditator, one engaged in a persistent effort. Such a person must investigate a thing that is filthy and repulsive if the mind is to gain release from all filthy and repulsive things.

The ‘thing that is filthy and repulsive’ here is the body. The body is an assemblage of filth, urine, and excrement. The things that are exuded from the hair of the head, the hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, and so on are all forms of excrement. When they fall into food, people take offense at it. The food has to be thrown out, for no one can stomach it. Moreover, the body has to be constantly washed and scrubbed if it is to look presentable. If we don’t clean it, it will smell rank and no one will let us come near. Clothing and other accessories, when away from the body, are clean and attractive, but as soon as they come into contact with the body they become dirty. If we let them go without washing for a long time, no one will let us come near, because of the smell.

From this we can see that the body is a house of urine and excrement, asubha—unattractive; paṭikkūla—repulsive. When still alive, it’s bad enough. When there is no more life to it, it’s even more disgusting, to the point where nothing else can compare. So from the very beginning, all earnest meditators investigate the body methodically until they have it mastered. Before the body becomes clear, they investigate whichever part or aspect of the body is agreeable to their temperament until a particular aspect of the body appears as an uggaha nimitta. Then they focus on that aspect, working at it and developing it repeatedly.

‘Working at it and developing it repeatedly’ should be understood as follows: When rice farmers grow rice, they work in the soil, plowing the soil and planting rice in the soil. The following year they grow rice in the soil again. They don’t grow their rice in the air or in the middle of the sky. They grow it only in the soil, and the rice then fills their granaries of its own accord. When they work repeatedly in the soil, they don’t have to plead, ‘Rice, O rice, please come and fill our granaries.’ The rice pours in of its own accord. And even if they forbid it, saying, ‘Rice, O rice, don’t come and fill our granaries,’ if they have completed their work in the soil, there’s no doubt but that the rice will still come and keep their granaries full.

In the same way, we as earnest meditators should keep investigating the body at the point that is agreeable to our temperaments or first appears for us to see. No matter what, we should not neglect or abandon that point. Working at it repeatedly doesn’t refer only to the practice of walking meditation. We should be mindful, continuing our investigation in all places and at all times. Sitting, standing, walking, and lying down; eating, drinking, working, speaking, and thinking, we should always have all-round mindfulness of the present: This is what is meant by ‘working at it repeatedly.’

Once you have investigated the body until it is clear, you should then consider dividing it up into its various parts, using your own way of being methodical. Separate the body into the elements of earth, water, fire, and wind, examining it until you really see it in those terms. At this stage, you may use any strategies of your own devising that are agreeable to your temperament, but you must not in any event abandon the original reference point that first appeared to you. When you are investigating at this stage, you should work at it and develop it repeatedly. Don’t investigate once and then let it go for half a month or a month. Investigate in and out, back and forth, again and again. In other words, withdraw inward to quiet the mind and then come out again to investigate the body. Don’t exclusively investigate the body or exclusively quiet the mind.

When you have investigated in this way until you have it thoroughly mastered, what happens next is what comes of its own accord. The mind is bound to converge in a big way
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Heart ... n0004.html

Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by Srilankaputra »

Nettippakarana;

Quiet(Samatha) has the characteristic of preventing distraction of cognizance; its footing is the kinds of ugliness.

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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by Srilankaputra »

Guhatthaka Sutta: The Cave of the Body
Satto guhāyaṃ bahunābhichanno,
Tiṭṭhaṃ naro mohanasmiṃ pagāḷho;
Dūre vivekā hi tathāvidho so,
Kāmā hi loke na hi suppahāyā.

Staying attached to the cave,
covered heavily over,
a person sunk in confusion
is far from seclusion —
for sensual pleasures
sensual desires
in the world
are not lightly let go.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
Srilankaputra
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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by Srilankaputra »


For someone who has attained the first absorption, sensual perceptions have ceased.
Paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa kāmasaññā niruddhā hoti;

For someone who has attained the second absorption, the placing of the mind and keeping it connected have ceased.
dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa vitakkavicārā niruddhā honti;

For someone who has attained the third absorption, rapture has ceased.
tatiyaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa pīti niruddhā hoti;

For someone who has attained the fourth absorption, breathing has ceased.
catutthaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa assāsapassāsā niruddhā honti;
https://suttacentral.net/an9.31/en/sujato

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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by Srilankaputra »

Mendicants, without giving up these six qualities you can’t enter and remain in the first absorption.
“Cha, bhikkhave, dhamme appahāya abhabbo
paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharituṃ.

What six?
Katame cha?

Desire for sensual pleasures, ill will, dullness and drowsiness, restlessness and remorse, and doubt.
Kāmacchandaṃ, byāpādaṃ, thinamiddhaṃ, uddhaccakukkuccaṃ, vicikicchaṃ.

And the drawbacks of sensual pleasures haven’t been truly seen clearly with right wisdom.
Kāmesu kho panassa ādīnavo na yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭho hoti.

Without giving up these six qualities you can’t enter and remain in the first absorption.
Ime kho, bhikkhave, cha dhamme appahāya abhabbo paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharituṃ.

But after giving up these six qualities you can enter and remain in the first absorption.
Cha, bhikkhave, dhamme pahāya bhabbo paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharituṃ.

What six?
Katame cha?

Desire for sensual pleasures, ill will, dullness and drowsiness, restlessness and remorse, and doubt.
Kāmacchandaṃ, byāpādaṃ, thinamiddhaṃ, uddhaccakukkuccaṃ, vicikicchaṃ,

And the drawbacks of sensual pleasures have been truly seen clearly with right wisdom.
kāmesu kho panassa ādīnavo na yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭho hoti.

After giving up these six qualities you can enter and remain in the first absorption.”
Ime kho, bhikkhave, cha dhamme pahāya bhabbo paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharitun”ti.
https://suttacentral.net/an6.73/en/sujato

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pegembara
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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by pegembara »

bodom wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:49 pm Probably because it is the easiest and most tangible object to focus on.

:namaste:
"Monks, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person might grow disenchanted with this body composed of the four great elements, might grow dispassionate toward it, might gain release from it. Why is that? Because the growth & decline, the taking up & putting down of this body composed of the four great elements are apparent. Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person might grow disenchanted, might grow dispassionate, might gain release there.

"But as for what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness,' the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it. Why is that? For a long time this has been relished, appropriated, and grasped by the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person as, 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.' Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by ToVincent »

SarathW wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:45 pm Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?
Because body, as breath and physical body, is the door to the establishment (samādhi) of the citta.

But one has to use a proper lexicography first.
I have already covered that on other threads, and I won't repeat myself indefinitely.

Dīgha & rassa mean respectively high/lofty/far & low/close - .
And this is how someone should breathe:
https://justpaste.it/7296c

Breathing (heavily) in towards the lofty.
Breathing (heavily) out from the lofty.
Breathing (heavily) in towards the low.
Breathing (heavily) out from the low.
(Repeat)

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Sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī is the correct knowledge about this entire body (breath).

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Breathing (breath) is what allows to calm the kāyasaṅkhārā - Both the kāyasaṅkhāra (co-action of the breath itself) - and the resulting kāyasaṅkhāra of the physical body (usually unsteady from the influences of the external).

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Breath is what allows and leads to the two pleasures: namely the lower (pīti) and the higher (sukkha).
If the lower is pretty obvious - the latter is a little bit more intricate.
In one who has joy, delight (pīti) arises. In one who has delight of mano, the body becomes serene. When the body is serene, one feels pleasure (sukkha). Feeling pleasure, the citta becomes established. When the citta is established, phenomena become manifest. When phenomena are manifest, he is reckoned as one who dwells heedfully.
Pamuditassa pīti jāyati. Pītimanassa kāyo passambhati. Passaddhakāyo sukhaṃ vediyati. Sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati. Samāhite citte dhammā pātubhavanti. Dhammānaṃ pātubhāvā appamādavihārītveva saṅkhyaṃ gacchati . Evaṃ kho, nandiya, ariyasāvako appamādavihārī hotī”ti.
SN 55.40

Note:
It is important to realize that, if pīti takes place in mano, sukkha is not localized in citta.
If the relationship between the delight of mano and the serenity of the physical body is obvious; it is not so evident for the sukha in ceto, that leads to the establishment (samādhi) of citta.
Ceto is pretty much related to mano, as we have seen before.


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Cittasaṅkhārapaṭisaṃvedī is the accurate knowledge of the cittasaṅkhāra. Both the coaction of the citta itself - and the saṅkhāra as a result in satta.

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Then come steps eigth to ten, that lead to the (liberation from ceto [the "polluted citta"], and establishment of citta.

.
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In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
SarathW
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Re: Why four frames of Satipathana start from body contemplation (Kayanupassana)?

Post by SarathW »

In the following video (in the Sinhalease language) Ven. Vijithananda argues that only body contemplation can contemplate the four Satipathana, not the other five senses. For instance, in Samatha meditation, you can't contemplate the body. (Pathavi, Apo, Tejo, and Vayo)
:shrug:

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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