Clear Comprehending

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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one_awakening
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Clear Comprehending

Post by one_awakening » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:19 am

What does the Buddha mean when he says "clear comprehending" in the following;

.... ardent, clear-comprehending & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

MN 10; DN 22; MN 118

“You only lose what you cling to”

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DooDoot
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by DooDoot » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:48 am

The Pali here is very important. The Pali is "sampajanna" thus refers to the wisdom (panna) faculty. I recommend the following two explanations:

1. The Scientific Cure of Spiritual Disease: Part II

2. Video

befriend
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by befriend » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:42 pm

in meditation clear comprehension is knowing one of the five hindrances in a experiential way seeing it intamitely and staying with that intimacy when I do this the hindrance leaves on its own because I've experienced the pain of it.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

paul
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by paul » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:49 pm

Alertness (sampajanna) is the component of present awareness in mindfulness, which is subjected to the focus of dhamma principles from memory (sati). The Canon defines alertness as knowing both events in the mind and activities of the body as they are happening (SN 47:35) that is, the four foundations. "Subduing greed and distress with reference to the world" refers to ardency (atappa), which is closely connected to right effort. Ardency, alertness and memory comprise mindfulness.
Last edited by paul on Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SarathW
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:20 pm

This is a very good question.
I was listening to a monk recently and I really understood the meaning of the phrase.
According to his explanation, clear comprehension means not forgetting what you already know or learn.
For instance, a child does not know that he is going to die one day.
As an adult, we definitely know that we will die one day.
Even if we know that we definitely die one day, we behave like people who will never be going to die.
We quickly forget the facts we have no any doubt about it because we are so busy with other unimportant matters.
The way I understand the English translation seems inadequate.
It does not mean the comprehension it means not forgetting (Sati) what you already comprehended.

We can apply this to Noble Eightfold path as well.
Once we comprehend NEFP we should constantly remind us about this in our daily lives.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Sam Vara
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:02 pm

SarathW wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:20 pm
This is a very good question.
I was listening to a monk recently and I really understood the meaning of the phrase.
According to his explanation, clear comprehension means not forgetting what you already know or learn.
For instance, a child does not know that he is going to die one day.
As an adult, we definitely know that we will die one day.
Even if we know that we definitely die one day, we behave like people who will never be going to die.
We quickly forget the facts we have no any doubt about it because we are so busy with other unimportant matters.
The way I understand the English translation seems inadequate.
It does not mean the comprehension it means not forgetting (Sati) what you already comprehended.

We can apply this to Noble Eightfold path as well.
Once we comprehend NEFP we should constantly remind us about this in our daily lives.
Are you saying that sampajañña is something like the ability to apply past insights to what is arising in the present moment? Have I understood that correctly?

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one_awakening
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by one_awakening » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:34 am

This is what can make practicing difficult sometimes. Already three very different meanings for the same word.
DooDoot wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:48 am
.... thus refers to the wisdom
befriend wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:42 pm
.... clear comprehension is knowing one of the five hindrances in a experiential way seeing it intamitely and staying with that intimacy when
SarathW wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:20 pm
....clear comprehension means not forgetting what you already know or learn.
“You only lose what you cling to”

SarathW
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by SarathW » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:52 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:02 pm
SarathW wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:20 pm
This is a very good question.
I was listening to a monk recently and I really understood the meaning of the phrase.
According to his explanation, clear comprehension means not forgetting what you already know or learn.
For instance, a child does not know that he is going to die one day.
As an adult, we definitely know that we will die one day.
Even if we know that we definitely die one day, we behave like people who will never be going to die.
We quickly forget the facts we have no any doubt about it because we are so busy with other unimportant matters.
The way I understand the English translation seems inadequate.
It does not mean the comprehension it means not forgetting (Sati) what you already comprehended.

We can apply this to Noble Eightfold path as well.
Once we comprehend NEFP we should constantly remind us about this in our daily lives.
Are you saying that sampajañña is something like the ability to apply past insights to what is arising in the present moment? Have I understood that correctly?
Yes.
In another word I would say remember to practice what you fully realised.
Right knowledge is not sufficient right release has to come with it.
If we know Kamma And Vipaka we should remember it when in our thought, speech and action.
This is mainly applicable to non-Arahant I suppose.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by DooDoot » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:34 am

one_awakening wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:34 am
This is what can make practicing difficult sometimes. Already three very different meanings for the same word.
Why I posted the video for you, which distinguishes between mindfulness (concentration faculty) and sampajanna (wisdom faculty). My preferred translation for sampajanna is 'ready wisdom'; which means the mind is always prepared with supervisory wisdom. "Clear comprehension" is an OK translation but this does not mean a clear light mind clear of defilements. It means always having comprehending wisdom in the mind. It means having "comprehension".

The use of sampajanna in MN 10; DN 22; MN 118 includes many things, such as:

1. Knowing how to establish/practise the path/concentration (for example, by abandoning craving per the instruction in the noble truths). In short, when you practise, you know what you are doing; you know what instructions you are following, etc. For example, if you cannot intellectually recite the noble eightfold path then it is not possible to have sampajanna because you won't know what is to be abandoned and what is to be developed.

2. Knowing how to respond to the observed experiences (for example, knowing to not cling to them; knowing they are impermanent). Note: I am not referring to directly observing impermanence here (aka, vipassana). I am referring to a supervisory wisdom that maintains the mind in a state of non-clinging towards the meditation objects. Thus, sometimes sampajanna will quietly reflect; particularly when a very positive or very negative experience occurs: "This is impermanent" or "This must be regarded as not-self" or "It is not practise to cling to this" or "Do not judge this with love or aversion as good or bad".

The crucial matter is the meditator is ardent, clear-comprehending & mindful in order to put aside greed & distress with reference to the world. Sampajanna is whatever wisdom is required to put aside greed & distress with reference to the world. "Mindfulness" simply means to "constantly remember" to apply sampajanna (rather than to be forgetful). Thus:

1. Mindfulness means to remember to practise.

2. Sampajjana means to know how and what to practise.

3. Mindfulness remembers to apply & maintain sampajanna.

In the quote below, 'mindfulness' means 'to remain' and 'sampajanna' is 'right view'.
One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness.

MN 117
For example, imagine you see a $100 bill on the other side of the road however it is raining. To grab the $100 bill, you must first cross the road but the road is slippery. Therefore, when crossing the road, you must always remember to reflect with wisdom: "Be careful, be careful, the road is slippery". Knowing the road is slippery is "sampajanna". Remembering the road is slippery and therefore keeping your attention on your footsteps on the road to prevent slipping (rather than looking at the $100 bill) is "mindfulness". While the wisdom exists that the road is slippery & dangerous; the mind must remember to maintain this wisdom in the mind rather than be forgetful or negligent. The necessary wisdom to cross the road is sampajjana and the act of remembering to apply that wisdom is mindfulness. Sampajanna is wisdom and mindfulness is remembering/not-forgetting.

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one_awakening
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by one_awakening » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:06 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:34 am

....means the mind is always prepared with supervisory wisdom.
This makes senses since the "comprehend" part can be equated with wisdom.
“You only lose what you cling to”

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DooDoot
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by DooDoot » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:21 am

one_awakening wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:06 am
This makes senses since the "comprehend" part can be equated with wisdom.
Yes and thank you. As I posted, my understanding is "sampajanna" does not mean to have a clear bright mind. It means to have a mind with ready wisdom that can be applied to sense experience, if & when necessary. Sujato translates it as "situational awareness". While I am not a fan of the English word "awareness" (given it can have different meanings), I like the translation of "situational". I would translate it as "situational wisdom"; meaning different nuances of wisdom that respond to different situations.
situation
noun
a set of circumstances in which one finds oneself; a state of affairs.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:13 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:52 am
Yes.
In another word I would say remember to practice what you fully realised.
Right knowledge is not sufficient right release has to come with it.
If we know Kamma And Vipaka we should remember it when in our thought, speech and action.
This is mainly applicable to non-Arahant I suppose.
Many thanks, Sarath - that's really helpful. :anjali:

SarathW
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by SarathW » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:07 am

Canonical commentary
While the nikayas do not elaborate on what the Buddha meant by sampajañña, the Pali commentaries analyze it further in terms of four contexts for one's comprehension:[10]

purpose (Pāli: sātthaka): refraining from activities irrelevant to the path.
suitability (sappāya): pursuing activities in a dignified and careful manner.
domain (gocara):[11] maintaining sensory restraint consistent with mindfulness.
non-delusion (asammoha): seeing the true nature of reality (see three characteristics).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampaja%C3%B1%C3%B1a

According to the above analysis, it seems to mean clear comprehending!

:shrug:
End of the day what really matters is to understand what Sati means.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

pegembara
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by pegembara » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:24 am

In the Sutta Pitaka, the Buddha gave two explanations of the term sampajañña. In the Samyutta-nikaya the Buddha defines sampajano as follows:

Kathañca, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sampajano hoti? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno vidita vedana uppajjanti, vidita upatthahanti, vidita abbhattham gacchanti; vidita sañña uppajjanti, vidita upahahanti, vidita abbhattham gacchanti; vidita vitakka uppajjanti, vidita upatthahanti, vidita abbhattham gacchanti. Evam kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sampajano hoti.2

And how, meditators, does a meditator understand thoroughly? Herein, meditators, a meditator knows sensations arising in him, knows their persisting, and knows their vanishing; he knows perceptions arising in him, knows their persisting, and knows their vanishing; he knows each initial application (of the mind on an object) arising in him, knows its persisting, and knows its vanishing. This, meditators, is how a meditator understands thoroughly.

The second explanation given by the Buddha of sampajañña emphasizes that it must be continuous. He states:

Kathañca, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sampajano hoti? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu abhikkante patikkante sampajanakari hoti. Alokite vilokite sampajanakari hoti. Samiñjite pasarite sampajanakari hoti. Sanghati-patta-civara-dharane sampajanakari hoti. Asite pite khayite sayite sampajanakari hoti. Uccara-passava-kamme sampajanakari hoti. Gate thite nisinne sutte jagarite bhasite tunhi-bhave sampajanakari hoti.4

And how, meditators does a meditator understand thoroughly? Again, meditators, a meditator in going forwards and backwards understands impermanence thoroughly, in looking straight ahead and sideways understands impermanence thoroughly, in bending and stretching understands impermanence thoroughly, in wearing the robes and carrying the bowl understands impermanence thoroughly, in chewing and drinking, eating and savouring understands impermanence thoroughly, in attending to the calls of nature understands impermanence thoroughly, in walking, standing, sitting, sleeping and waking, speaking and remaining silent understands impermanence thoroughly.


https://pariyatti.org/Free-Resources/Ar ... %B1%C3%B1a
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

SarathW
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Re: Clear Comprehending

Post by SarathW » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:12 am

sampajañña: 'clarity of consciousness', clear comprehension. This term is frequently met with in combination with mindfulness (sati). In D. 22, M. 10 it is said: "Clearly conscious is he in going and coming, clearly conscious in looking forward and backward, clearly conscious in bending and stretching his body; clearly conscious in eating, drinking, chewing and tasting, clearly conscious in discharging excrement and urine; clearly conscious in walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep and awakening; clearly conscious in speaking and keeping silent." - For a definition of the term sati-sampajañña, s. Pug. 86.

According to the Com., 'clarity of consciousness' is of 4 kinds: regarding the purpose, the suitability, (inclusion in the meditative) domain, and the undeluded conception of the activity concerned. Explained in detail in Com. to Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta. (tr. in The Way of Mindfulness, by Soma Thera; BPS).

https://www.budsas.org/ebud/bud-dict/dic3_s.htm
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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