I am walking

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
befriend
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I am walking

Post by befriend » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:55 pm

Has anyone practiced intensively how buddha says when walking he knows "I am walking" when lying down, standing, sitting. Literally thinking "I am sitting". I've practiced this somewhat and found good results but never really used it as a tool for meditation. Wondering if anyone here's had good results with this style. Thanks
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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mikenz66
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Re: I am walking

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:46 am

Hi befriend,

I see this as a key aspect of mindfulness-based approaches, such as the various variations on the Mahasis approach. However, I would drop the "I", which is added to the English simply to make the sentences more idiomatic. The aim of this attention to postures is:
Whatever posture their body is in, they know it.
Yathā yathā vā panassa kāyo paṇihito hoti tathā tathā naṃ pajānāti.
https://suttacentral.net/mn10/en/sujato#6.2
The formal exercises of walking and sitting have, as I see it, the aim that eventually "whatever is happening, the mediators knows that it is happening". The meditator is aware of the walking, seeing, etc...

Here's some comments from
SEEING THROUGH - A Guide to Insight Meditation - by Bhikkhu K. Ñāṇananda
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
Directing these two factors [of enlightenment] is what is called meditative
attention, mental-noting or noticing (‘manasikāra’). Though the
same term ‘mental-noting’ or ‘manasikāra’ is used throughout
the instructions on insight meditation, there is a need to redefine
the term as one progresses in one's meditation. At the outset this
mental noting is rather gross. One has to start from where one
stands. So, the usual instructions in Insight Meditation would
imply a mode of attending that goes slightly deeper than the way
of attending in the world. As implied by the basic instruction on
sense-restraint, ‘na nimittaggāhī nānubyañjanaggāhī’, one does
not grasp at a sign or its details in what is seen, heard and so
forth. Instead, one summarily dismisses the visual object after
mentally noting it as ‘form’, ‘form’. Also, in the case of sound,
one just notes it as ‘sound’, ‘sound’, without going into details.
This is the mode of mentalnoting recommended at the very
outset.

But in this mode of mental noting there are certain gross
elements. One becomes aware of these as one progresses in
insight meditation. One becomes aware that in this type of
mental-noting as ‘form’, ‘form’ or ‘sound’, ‘sound’, one
presupposes an object. That is to say, these things get object-
status by the very fact of mental-attention. Of course, in order to
attend there has to be an object. But as one goes deeper in insight
meditation, one realizes that an object by definition is what one
grasps (ārammaṇa) – what one hangs on to (ālambana).
He then describes going beyond that duality, concluding:
Now, if perception is a mirage, in order to get at this
mirage nature, one has to be content with attending simply as
‘seeing, seeing’. One way or the other it is just a seeing or just a
hearing. Thereby he stops short at the bare awareness. He stops
short at the bare seeing, bare hearing, bare feeling and bare
thinking. He does not grant it an object status. He does not
cognize it as an object existing in the world. He does not give it a
name. The purpose of this method of mental noting or attending,
is the eradication of the conceit ‘AM’, which the meditator has to
accomplish so as to attain release. The conceit ‘AM’ is ‘asmi-
māna’.
:heart:
Mike

chownah
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Re: I am walking

Post by chownah » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:18 pm

I have had excellent results with this type of meditation using tai chi chuan which I learned as a meditation form.
Sorry if this belongs in the other paths sub forum.
chownah

befriend
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Re: I am walking

Post by befriend » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:48 pm

Thanks for the reply Mike
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

paul
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Re: I am walking

Post by paul » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:19 pm

To put it into context, the second exercise in the Satipatthana sutta referred to in the OP should be linked with the third, ("When going forward and returning, he makes himself fully alert...), as together they constitute the body foundation of alertness of the present, sampajanna (SN 36:7, 47:35), and the establishing of mindfulness is a process of bringing memory to bear on the present moment. This means that for sati to be properly established, it must not only remember far into the past, but also be coupled with a clear awareness of what’s going on in the present.
—-adapted from “Right Mindfulness”, Thanissaro.

Mindfulness has been misinterpreted by some modern teachers as referring only to the present moment.

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Kumara
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Re: I am walking

Post by Kumara » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:04 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:46 am
Here's some comments from
SEEING THROUGH - A Guide to Insight Meditation - by Bhikkhu K. Ñāṇananda
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
Directing these two factors [of enlightenment] is what is called meditative
attention, mental-noting or noticing (‘manasikāra’). Though the
same term ‘mental-noting’ or ‘manasikāra’ is used throughout
the instructions on insight meditation, there is a need to redefine
the term as one progresses in one's meditation....
What/which "instructions on insight meditation" is "‘manasikāra’ is used throughout"?
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

pyluyten
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Re: I am walking

Post by pyluyten » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:30 am

I like to distinguish the two :

* practice formal meditation while walking / standing. This is an alternative to sitting meditation. For example in zen it is possible to practice sitting / have a very short slowly walking session / then practice sitting again. There are pro and con. Main pro is to be able to practice while avoiding slumber.
* be mindful in ordinary activities, while walking. I think sitting meditation is still able to produce this => whichever posture we use in formal meditation, we will develop mindfulness in all positions.

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budo
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Re: I am walking

Post by budo » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:49 am

befriend wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:55 pm
Has anyone practiced intensively how buddha says when walking he knows "I am walking" when lying down, standing, sitting. Literally thinking "I am sitting". I've practiced this somewhat and found good results but never really used it as a tool for meditation. Wondering if anyone here's had good results with this style. Thanks
chownah wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:18 pm
I have had excellent results with this type of meditation using tai chi chuan which I learned as a meditation form.
Sorry if this belongs in the other paths sub forum.
chownah

Can you guys please define what you mean by "Results" and why they are good.

befriend
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Re: I am walking

Post by befriend » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:01 pm

I just mean it was a simple formula to practice, that particular style made metta arise and it was a good way to be mindful of the body. It was a comfortable relaxing abode.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Kumara
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Re: I am walking

Post by Kumara » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:05 am

budo wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:49 am
Can you guys please define what you mean by "Results" and why they are good.
Good point. OP also speaks of "good results" without being specific.
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

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Kumara
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Re: I am walking

Post by Kumara » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:35 am

Going by the Suttas, recognising "I am walking" is a satipatthana practice, not vipassana. (Theravada has muddled the terminology.) On it's own, it's a samatha practice, as it leads to mental settling (cetosamatha). (Note: I'm using Sutta terminology.)

Nonetheless, we can give it a vipassana edge: "I am walking. Is that true?"
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

befriend
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Re: I am walking

Post by befriend » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:55 am

For clarity I should have said what are the results of this meditation style like?
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

pegembara
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Re: I am walking

Post by pegembara » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:54 am

Kumara wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:35 am
Going by the Suttas, recognising "I am walking" is a satipatthana practice, not vipassana. (Theravada has muddled the terminology.) On it's own, it's a samatha practice, as it leads to mental settling (cetosamatha). (Note: I'm using Sutta terminology.)

Nonetheless, we can give it a vipassana edge: "I am walking. Is that true?"
Good point. Various actions are going on that we conveniently call walking.

'I am breathing. Is that truly what is going on? '
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Kumara
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Re: I am walking

Post by Kumara » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:30 am

pegembara wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:54 am
Kumara wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:35 am
Going by the Suttas, recognising "I am walking" is a satipatthana practice, not vipassana. (Theravada has muddled the terminology.) On it's own, it's a samatha practice, as it leads to mental settling (cetosamatha). (Note: I'm using Sutta terminology.)

Nonetheless, we can give it a vipassana edge: "I am walking. Is that true?"
Good point. Various actions are going on that we conveniently call walking.

'I am breathing. Is that truly what is going on? '
What I meant was whether it's true that *I* am walking.
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

befriend
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Re: I am walking

Post by befriend » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:27 pm

Being a Samatha practice would it inevitably lead to jhana or at least access concentration?
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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