Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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Myotai
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Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by Myotai » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:40 am

Hi,

Has anyone experienced a negative outcome after meditating on Impermanence? I have been experiencing a palpable dread and sense of futility as a result. I guess the realisation is there, but now it seems to have sapped some of the enjoyment and pleasure I would normally have experienced from the most innocuous of things, like walking in the woods, watching a film or specialising.

Best wishes,

Tony

SarathW
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by SarathW » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:36 am

Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta should be practiced in conjunction with Brhamavihara.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Myotai
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by Myotai » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:18 pm

...and if I am?

SarathW
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by SarathW » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:29 pm

Then you will not have the negative feeling.
You will attend to your normal day to day activities with a bust of energy and you will have so much happiness and release.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Myotai
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by Myotai » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:45 pm

Thanks.....

I should have articulated things better....

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=31136

paul
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by paul » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:10 pm

It’s good that feelings are being experienced even though they are negative, as this indicates necessary experiential involvement in the path. The path proceeds in hard-fought tactical stages, and the former sources of pleasurable experiences of the flesh must be replaced by feelings not of the flesh. The fundamental of these is perception of wilderness, which even though it is conditioned, should be cultivated as an allowable mental nutriment :

“(the practitioner) not attending to the perception of village, not attending to the perception of human being — attends to the singleness based on the perception of wilderness. His mind takes pleasure, finds satisfaction, settles, & indulges in its perception of wilderness.”—-MN 121.
Last edited by paul on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Myotai
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by Myotai » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:23 pm

....thanks Paul. Wilderness pretty much summed it up...

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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:13 am

Myotai wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:40 am
Has anyone experienced a negative outcome after meditating on Impermanence? I have been experiencing a palpable dread and sense of futility as a result. I guess the realisation is there, but now it seems to have sapped some of the enjoyment and pleasure I would normally have experienced from the most innocuous of things, like walking in the woods, watching a film or specialising.
Historically I've been prone to depression, so I've had to be quite careful in the way I approach insight practice, particularly when working with the 3 marks ( though I find dukkha more challenging than anicca ). On the other hand I've found satipatthana practice to be fascinating and revealing, and at times very liberating. And of course anicca means that dukkha is impermanent too!

Ajahn Brahm tells a nice story about Vi Passana and Sam Atha taking their dog Metta for a walk in the hills of enlightenment, which I think makes an important point.

Might I ask what method you are using? And do you have the support of a sangha?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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LG2V
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by LG2V » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:47 am

It's possibly one of the stages of meditative insight leading to stream entry.

http://www.vipassanadhura.com/sixteen.html

The Sixteen Stages of Vipassana Knowledge

Knowledge to distinguish mental and physical states (namarupa pariccheda nana).
Knowledge of the cause-and-effect relationship between mental and physical states (paccaya pariggaha nana).
Knowledge of mental and physical processes as impermanent, unsatisfactory and nonself (sammasana nana).
Knowledge of arising and passing away (udayabbaya nana).
Knowledge of the dissolution of formations (bhanga nana).
Knowledge of the fearful nature of mental and physical states (bhaya nana).
Knowledge of mental and physical states as unsatisfactory (adinava nana).

Knowledge of disenchantment (nibbida nana).
Knowledge of the desire to abandon the worldly state (muncitukamayata nana).
Knowledge which investigates the path to deliverance and instills a decision to practice further (patisankha nana).
Knowledge which regards mental and physical states with equanimity (sankharupekha nana).
Knowledge which conforms to the Four Noble Truths (anuloma nana).
Knowledge of deliverance from the worldly condition (gotrabhu nana).
Knowledge by which defilements are abandoned and are overcome by destruction (magga nana).
Knowledge which realizes the fruit of the path and has nibbana as object (phala nana).
Knowledge which reviews the defilements still remaining (paccavekkhana nana).
6. Bhaya nana

The sixth stage of knowledge is bhaya nana or "knowledge of the appearance as terror." The following characteristics can be observed:

At first the meditator acknowledges objects, but the acknowledgements vanish together with consciousness.
A feeling of fear occurs but it is unlike that generated by seeing a ghost.
The disappearance of nama and rupa and the consequent becoming nothingness induce fear.
The meditator may feel neuralgic pain similar to that caused by a nervous disease when he is walking or standing.
Some practitioners cry when they think of their friends or relatives.
Some practitioners are very much afraid of what they see even if it is only a water jug or a bed post.
The meditator now realizes that nama and rupa, which were previously considered to be good, are completely insubstantial.
There is no feeling of happiness, pleasure or enjoyment.
Some practitioners are aware of this feeling of fear but are not controlled by it.


7. Adinava nana

The seventh knowledge is "knowledge of the contemplation of disadvantages." It has the following characteristics:

The rising and falling movements appear vague and obscure, and the movements gradually disappear.
The meditator experiences negative, irritable feelings.
Nama and rupa can be acknowledged well.
The meditator is aware of nothing but negativity caused by the arising, persisting and vanishing of nama and rupa. The meditator becomes aware of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and nonself.
In contrast to former days, acknowledgement of what is perceived by the eyes, nose, tongue, body and mind cannot be made clearly.

My advice is to keep meditating on impermanence, dukkha, and not-self. Good luck. :smile:
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by pegembara » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:33 am

Myotai wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:40 am
Hi,

Has anyone experienced a negative outcome after meditating on Impermanence? I have been experiencing a palpable dread and sense of futility as a result. I guess the realisation is there, but now it seems to have sapped some of the enjoyment and pleasure I would normally have experienced from the most innocuous of things, like walking in the woods, watching a film or specialising.

Best wishes,

Tony
Good advice from the sutta.
"Monks, these four types of individuals are to be found existing in the world. Which four?

"As for the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquillity of awareness, he should approach an individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way. The mind should be made to settle down in this way. The mind should be unified in this way. The mind should be concentrated in this way.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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dylanj
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by dylanj » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:46 am

Image
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by dylanj » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:48 am

This is a negative feeling that is to be pursued, although the associated happiness is even higher, & even higher than that is the associated equanimity. But the perception of impermanence will not exclusively produce happiness or equanimity & that is fine.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by rightviewftw » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:27 am

Idk guys, lets ask what OP means by negative and how he trains. I am not comfortable saying that result of a supposedly healthy theme for mind gives negative result.
Id expect disenchantment but also conviction, fearlessness and zeal, many positive effects in general and more than those listed. Also no negative ones per se.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
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Parallel Dhammapada Reading
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"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by befriend » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:35 pm

I have the same situation I posted a topic about it in vipassana section called Dukkha.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Re: Negative feelings after meditating on Anicca

Post by Zom » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:52 pm

This is what happens when one starts not with things he should start with.

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