Way~Farer wrote:I have a question about this passage quoted from Cūḷavedalla Sutta, above:
“The thought does not occur to a monk as he is attaining the cessation of perception & feeling that ‘I am about to attain the cessation of perception & feeling’ or that ‘I am attaining the cessation of perception & feeling’ or that ‘I have attained the cessation of perception & feeling.’ Instead, the way his mind has previously been developed leads him to that state.”
I take this to mean that when 'attaining the cessation of perception and feeling' there is no thought 'I am attaining it'. Indeed, if one were to think that, one would still be engaged in perception and feeling, or so it would seem to me. So the thought of attaining some state, would actually interfere with the attaining of it!
So the point that I wonder about is, are 'states of cessation' experiences at all? If there is no sense of oneself experiencing some state, then is that state an experience, or is it the
cessation of experience, and of the ordinary state of feeling that 'I am experiencing such and such'?
Have to be very careful using words such as experienced or cognized, because there is nobody to experience where there is no form and perception.
That being said, one can say it is experienced by nobody. Also the term experience is tied up in duration(arising and ceasing) by default for most people, so im trying not using it in regards to the Unmade state nowadays. When the world ceases Only highest happiness Remains, it is a whole, there is no X and Nibbana, there is just Nibbana and it is pleasant:
Nibbana Sutta: Unbinding
..on one occasion Ven. Sariputta... said to the monks, "This Unbinding is pleasant, friends. This Unbinding is pleasant."
When this was said, Ven. Udayin said to Ven. Sariputta, "But what is the pleasure here, my friend, where there is nothing felt?"
"Just that is the pleasure here, my friend: where there is nothing felt.
Further Venerable Sariputta explains that since the Aggregates are Stress the cessation of stress is Pleasant.
Mahavedalla Sutta: The Greater Set of Questions-and-Answers
Ven. Maha Kotthita ".." said to Ven. Sariputta,
...
"'Consciousness, consciousness': Thus is it said. To what extent, friend, is it said to be 'consciousness'?"
...
"'It cognizes, it cognizes': Thus, friend, it is said to be 'consciousness.' And what does it cognize? It cognizes 'pleasant.' It cognizes 'painful.' It cognizes 'neither painful nor pleasant.' 'It cognizes, it cognizes': Thus it is said to be 'consciousness.'"
So when Ven. Sariputta says that Unbinding is pleasant and Consciousness cognizes pleasure, we must not get fooled into thinking that it is same type of consciousness. They use a diffrent term for the "Nibbana-consciousness" which is not of Aggregates. As i wrote above:
Have to be very careful using words such as experienced or cognized, because there is nobody to experience where there is no form and perception.
That being said, one can say it is experienced by nobody. Also the term experience is tied up in duration(arising and ceasing) by default for most people
Conventionally consciousness is "x" cognizing "y" and is tied to arising and ceasing, same as experience, in Nibbana there is nobody to be conscious of it, therefore it is problematic to use these terms.