Tinnitus

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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zan
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Tinnitus

Post by zan » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:33 pm

How does one cope with a constant thing like timnitus in teference to insight meditation? Since it does not rise, fall or change, how is it noted and seen as anicca?
I don't have much knowledge of the Dhamma, I'm just a beginner. Keep that in mind before you take anything I say too seriously :tongue:

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mikenz66
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:50 pm

Hi Zan,

Perhaps some of these previous discussions are useful:
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=11922
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=8456
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18418

Does your sensation really not change? That might be interesting to investigate. Some other aspects of experience don't always change very fast. For example for me, it is not easy to find change in the mind/mood (3rd satipatthana) over a short timescale.

:heart:
Mike

R1111
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by R1111 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:56 pm

Note it as you see fit, you can say hearing or tinnitus, stay with it until it ceases, note other stuff if u notice such as doubt or curiosity. If u experience it and j thinking to urself hmm wonder how to note it, thats already cessation of the tinnitus as well as thinking and arising of doubt. If u notice tinnitus its already dead by the time u note it, but will arise again as consciousness makes contact and u notice it again this happens very quickly but you should be able to notice it if u look

zan
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by zan » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:17 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Zan,

Perhaps some of these previous discussions are useful:
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=11922
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=8456
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18418

Does your sensation really not change? That might be interesting to investigate. Some other aspects of experience don't always change very fast. For example for me, it is not easy to find change in the mind/mood (3rd satipatthana) over a short timescale.

:heart:
Mike
Good question. It must change some. I suppose I meant that it is chronic and so does not change in the sense that it is never really gone, as opposed to say a stomach ache that completely subsides eventually.

Do you have this condition as well?

I will check out the other threads thanks Mike!
I don't have much knowledge of the Dhamma, I'm just a beginner. Keep that in mind before you take anything I say too seriously :tongue:

SarathW
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by SarathW » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:17 pm

I have tinnitus for many years.
It is like the noise you hear in the hearing test but it appears continues.
(but I know it is not continues because it is like the car engine noise)
Even I am typing this I hear it.
But I also hear the crow,birds,clock ticking and the noise of the planes as well.
You hear it only if you pay attention to it.
So do not pay attention let it be as any other disturbance.
For example when I pay attention to my breath I do not hear it.
Last edited by SarathW on Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

zan
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by zan » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:19 pm

SarathW wrote:I have tinnitus for many years.
Even I am typing this I hear it.
But I also here the crow,birds,clock ticking and the noise of the planes as well.
You here it only if you pay attention to it.
So do not pay attention let it be as any other disturbance.
Thank you SarathW :heart:
I don't have much knowledge of the Dhamma, I'm just a beginner. Keep that in mind before you take anything I say too seriously :tongue:

zan
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:57 pm

Re: Tinnitus

Post by zan » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:40 pm

R1111 wrote:Note it as you see fit, you can say hearing or tinnitus, stay with it until it ceases, note other stuff if u notice such as doubt or curiosity. If u experience it and j thinking to urself hmm wonder how to note it, thats already cessation of the tinnitus as well as thinking and arising of doubt. If u notice tinnitus its already dead by the time u note it, but will arise again as consciousness makes contact and u notice it again this happens very quickly but you should be able to notice it if u look
Thank you. I'm not entirely sure I understand, probably due to my lack of full comprehension of how insight works.
I don't have much knowledge of the Dhamma, I'm just a beginner. Keep that in mind before you take anything I say too seriously :tongue:

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mikenz66
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:44 pm

zan wrote: Good question. It must change some. I suppose I meant that it is chronic and so does not change in the sense that it is never really gone, as opposed to say a stomach ache that completely subsides eventually.
I would suggest investigating whether it is really constant. After all, the breath is always there, but it changes...
And, as I said, the mind-mood is fairly constant, but does change...
zan wrote: Do you have this condition as well?
Not seriously, in the sense of a ringing noise, but there are some things that come and go.

:heart:
Mike

R1111
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by R1111 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:30 pm

zan wrote:
R1111 wrote:Note it as you see fit, you can say hearing or tinnitus, stay with it until it ceases, note other stuff if u notice such as doubt or curiosity. If u experience it and j thinking to urself hmm wonder how to note it, thats already cessation of the tinnitus as well as thinking and arising of doubt. If u notice tinnitus its already dead by the time u note it, but will arise again as consciousness makes contact and u notice it again this happens very quickly but you should be able to notice it if u look
Thank you. I'm not entirely sure I understand, probably due to my lack of full comprehension of how insight works.
If you tell me what parts are confusing i will gladly elaborate.

zan
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by zan » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:15 am

mikenz66 wrote:
zan wrote: Good question. It must change some. I suppose I meant that it is chronic and so does not change in the sense that it is never really gone, as opposed to say a stomach ache that completely subsides eventually.
I would suggest investigating whether it is really constant. After all, the breath is always there, but it changes...
And, as I said, the mind-mood is fairly constant, but does change...
zan wrote: Do you have this condition as well?
Not seriously, in the sense of a ringing noise, but there are some things that come and go.

:heart:
Mike
Hmmm. I will consider investigating. However it is a difficult position because ignoring it and paying attention to other things is the best remedy. Investigating it would likely intensify the experience. However perhaps this, in the end, would be of benefit.

Thank you for the suggestion!
I don't have much knowledge of the Dhamma, I'm just a beginner. Keep that in mind before you take anything I say too seriously :tongue:

JohnK
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by JohnK » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:00 pm

zan wrote:...ignoring it and paying attention to other things is the best remedy.
Can't help but notice the use of the word "remedy" -- this suggests aversion -- don't get all caught up in that.
My experience with this is probably in one of the linked threads, but I'll just quickly say that during a retreat the hissing-swishy-somewhat-ringy sound became very dominant as other distractions (like thoughts) quieted down. I became very worried that I had unleasehed a monster so-to-speak and that "from now on" I would constantly be plagued by this (whereas before I had successfully repressed it w/o realizing I was doing so).
I learned that I could use this as a meditation object (not so different from the breath). It is now a friend so-to-speak which is available if I want to focus on it or at times it just seems to be the transitory object of awareness along with everything else. No aversion.
I hope this helps.
"Why is it, Master Kaccana, that ascetics fight with ascetics?"
"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics" (AN 2: iv, 6, abridged).
Kindly eyes, not verbal daggers.

zan
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by zan » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:07 pm

JohnK wrote:
zan wrote:...ignoring it and paying attention to other things is the best remedy.
Can't help but notice the use of the word "remedy" -- this suggests aversion -- don't get all caught up in that.
My experience with this is probably in one of the linked threads, but I'll just quickly say that during a retreat the hissing-swishy-somewhat-ringy sound became very dominant as other distractions (like thoughts) quieted down. I became very worried that I had unleasehed a monster so-to-speak and that "from now on" I would constantly be plagued by this (whereas before I had successfully repressed it w/o realizing I was doing so).
I learned that I could use this as a meditation object (not so different from the breath). It is now a friend so-to-speak which is available if I want to focus on it or at times it just seems to be the transitory object of awareness along with everything else. No aversion.
I hope this helps.

Thank you. I meant more along the lines of "letting go of it", perhaps "ignoring" was a poor choice of words. Apologies.
I don't have much knowledge of the Dhamma, I'm just a beginner. Keep that in mind before you take anything I say too seriously :tongue:

Frank23
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Re: Tinnitus

Post by Frank23 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:31 am

I've had mild tinnitus for much of my life. Eight years ago, it suddenly became much stronger. At first I was pretty freaked. Over time I found that eventually I stopped paying too much attention to it. When I took up meditation a couple of years ago, I found there were other things that distracted me pretty badly (primarily itches that appeared more or less randomly over various parts of the body when I was first settling down to sit). Once I figured out how to let go of those and not give in to the urge to scratch, I found I would pass into what seemed like a deeper state and the itching stopped. Also throughout this process I'm generally not aware of my tinnitus, even though I know it must still be there. If I did find myself focusing on the tinnitus as I was getting into a meditation session, I guess I'd treat it just like itching and use the same techniques to let it go. For me the technique is basically observing the irritant (the itch or the ear ringing) neutrally, having a sense of releasing it, and then move on to something else (usually the focus on the breath). The release doesn't occur right away -- usually it's a period of some time, maybe something like half a minute, before I'm aware that I'm no longer sensing whatever it was that was irritating me.

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