Tharuka Piyumi wrote:Jojola wrote:Tharuka Piyumi wrote:Difference between jhana and magga phala.
Phala means fruition or results of action if I'm not mistaking...
Magga means the path...
Magga Phala I imagine then means the fruits of the path. Which of course would be the noble attainments, the whole goal.
Jhana is part of that path to the goal; the eighth factor to be precise.
So I guess your question, to me, is a lot like asking "what is the difference between breaking eggs, and an omelette?"
Well I understand that we all have learn dhamma from different teachers so there can be differences between our opinions.But from what I have learned (refer Abhidhamma books) Magga is a type of citta which occurs consecutively after the phala citta.Initially before learning things deep I thought magga is the path to attain fruition but later I learned maggha is also a certain citta.Haven't you seen when reading Abhidhamma they mention sotapatti maggha citta, sotapatti phala citta etc.But my teacher says that sotapatti maggha citta cannot be clealy identified by the practitioner but phala citta is something you feel thoroughly (glimpse of nibbana).
And well for attaining jhana I understand ur opinion.But can you mention a place where lord buddha has stated that in order to attain maggha phala you have to attain jhanas from tripitaka).In tipitaka we study numorous stories about monks and lay people attaining different levels of phala but does those mention any thing about phala.But a common problem I see in western study of buddhism is there are lot of teachers who attained jhana and it is a good thing but they give lot of importance to jhana.To attain fruition you can either meditate or listen to dhamma with right concentration (yonisomanasikara)(there are other methods to attain too) for right concentration western people were tought anapanasati even by my teacher.But this doesn't necessarily mean you must attain jhana to attain fruition.
Right concentration are the Jhanas:
MN 141 "And what, friends, is right concentration? Here, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhana, which
is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion...”
DN 22 'And what, monks, is Right Concentration? Here, a monk, detached from sense-desires, detached from unwholesome mental states, enters and remains in the first jhana… “
SN 45:8 “"And what, bhikkhus, is right concentration? Here, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhana, which
is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion…”
Rigth concentration is the meditation that the Buddha praised:
MN 108 With Gopaka Moggallāna (https://suttacentral.net/en/mn108)
“And what kind of meditation did the Blessed One praise? Here, brahmin, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhāna…With the stilling of applied and sustained thought, he enters upon and abides in the second jhāna…With the fading away as well of rapture…he enters upon and abides in the third jhāna...With the abandoning of pleasure and pain...he enters upon and abides in the fourth jhāna…The Blessed One praised that kind of meditation.”
I was about to forget that the Jhanas are also described as nothing less than Nibanna in a providional sense:
AN 47 (6) Directly Visible (2)
"I t is said, friend, 'directly visible nibbana, directly visible nibbana/ In what way has the Blessed One spoken of directly visible nibbana?"
(1)—(8) "Here, friend, secluded from sensual pleasures . . . a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the first jhana To this extent, too, the Blessed One has spoken of directly visible nibbana in a provisional sense..."
Right concentration is the epitome of the eighfold path (MN 117) and the eightfold path is the 4rth noble truth, and the four noble truths are the core of the Buddhas teachings. In other words you take Jhana out you take the most important part of the 4rth noble truth out, you still got 3 noble truths though.