Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
Janalanda
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Re: Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

Post by Janalanda » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:10 am

Thanks Paul Davy. Indeed, my understanding only involved the first 2 "steps" of mindfulness and how not to do it wrong. Now I see there is more to do. In my opinion, the next "steps" will come only after practicing mindfulness for a longer time. "Breathing in sensitive to rapture" requires rapture to be there in the first place. And rapture will be there only after making progress in "calming bodily fabrications" (bodily formations, verbal formations, mental formations. I keep pointing this out because "bodily fabrications" might be a misleading term)

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bodom
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Re: Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

Post by bodom » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:15 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
Goofaholix wrote:
zan wrote:the breath as one's mindfulness object
The Anapanasati sutta doesn't support using the breath as one's only mindfulness object, which assume is what you mean (even in sitting), other than the first two steps each step is the breath as well as something else.
You could say the breath acts as an "anchor" throughout the four tetrads, but there is a lot of other stuff going on.
Which is why I prefer the translation mindfulness with breathing as opposed to mindfulness of breathing.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

Dinsdale
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Re: Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:04 pm

bodom wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:You could say the breath acts as an "anchor" throughout the four tetrads, but there is a lot of other stuff going on.
Which is why I prefer the translation mindfulness with breathing as opposed to mindfulness of breathing.

:namaste:
Yes, I first came across that when reading Buddhadasa Bhikkhu's commentary. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-Br ... 0861711114
Buddha save me from new-agers!

zan
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Re: Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

Post by zan » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:12 pm

It seems like there is an assumption that I am under the impression that one could stay with the breath at all times to the exclusion of everything else or something along those lines.

Doubtless this is due to poor wording on my part.

What I meant was: Is there sutta support for using the breath as one's main mindfulness object in the same way one would use the four postures; keeping with it while still knowing and viewing the rise and fall of all other topics spoken of in the Satipatthana sutta, but always returning to and keeping the breath in mind?

So whereas with the four postures one may keep them as the main object but still practice full awareness (sati-sampajanna) and be aware of the rise and fall of feelings, mind, and mind objects one would switch out the four postures and do the exact same thing, but with the breath replacing the four postures.
I don't have much knowledge of the Dhamma, I'm just a beginner. Keep that in mind before you take anything I say too seriously :tongue:

Dinsdale
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Re: Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:19 pm

zan wrote:What I meant was: Is there sutta support for using the breath as one's main mindfulness object in the same way one would use the four postures; keeping with it while still knowing and viewing the rise and fall of all other topics spoken of in the Satipatthana sutta, but always returning to and keeping the breath in mind?
That sounds somewhat like the fourth tetrad of anapanasati.

"[13] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.' [14] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion [literally, fading].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.' [15] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.' [16] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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bodom
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Re: Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

Post by bodom » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:37 pm

I find it hard not to be aware of the breath throughout the day in the four postures. For example while walking along with being aware of the general sensations of walking in the legs and feet, arms swinging etc. I notice the breath becoming more course due to exertion of energy. Similarly while sitting, due to training the mind in anapanasati the mind will naturally turn to the breath and sitting posture. While standing in line at the store the mind naturally turns to the breath and finally laying down to relax or sleep the mind naturally wants to go to the breath. It is a not a forceful effort to be aware it is very natural.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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bodom
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

Post by bodom » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:48 pm

zan wrote:It seems like there is an assumption that I am under the impression that one could stay with the breath at all times to the exclusion of everything else or something along those lines.

Doubtless this is due to poor wording on my part.

What I meant was: Is there sutta support for using the breath as one's main mindfulness object in the same way one would use the four postures; keeping with it while still knowing and viewing the rise and fall of all other topics spoken of in the Satipatthana sutta, but always returning to and keeping the breath in mind?

So whereas with the four postures one may keep them as the main object but still practice full awareness (sati-sampajanna) and be aware of the rise and fall of feelings, mind, and mind objects one would switch out the four postures and do the exact same thing, but with the breath replacing the four postures.
Yes it is the practice of anapanasati.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

zan
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:57 pm

Re: Anapanasati as one's main meditation and mindfulness practice

Post by zan » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:48 pm

bodom wrote:I find it hard not to be aware of the breath throughout the day in the four postures. For example while walking along with being aware of the general sensations of walking in the legs and feet, arms swinging etc. I notice the breath becoming more course due to exertion of energy. Similarly while sitting, due to training the mind in anapanasati the mind will naturally turn to the breath and sitting posture. While standing in line at the store the mind naturally turns to the breath and finally laying down to relax or sleep the mind naturally wants to go to the breath. It is a not a forceful effort to be aware it is very natural.

:namaste:
From that perspective it seems like it all fits together nicely and there's no reason to even be confused in the first place! I like it. Thanks.
I don't have much knowledge of the Dhamma, I'm just a beginner. Keep that in mind before you take anything I say too seriously :tongue:

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