vipassana question

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
Post Reply
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

vipassana question

Post by befriend »

when I practice the mahasi vipassana method of noting whatever sense impression arises moment to moment im not sure how to do this, heres an example. if a motorcycle drives by I note hearing hearing, then while the sound of the motorcycle is still there a bird chirps and the chirping is louder meaning more prominent of an experience, do I stop noticing the motorcycle sound before I hear its passing away and switch to hearing the bird? or do I stick with the motorcycle noise for the duration of its arising persisting and disappearing? thank you.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
SarathW
Posts: 21239
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: vipassana question

Post by SarathW »

The objective is to understand the process.
Contact (Rupa) , feeling (Vedana) and the arising (Citta) of desire etc (Dhamma).
It is interesting to note that how your attention is turning towards the desired object.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: vipassana question

Post by Goofaholix »

The process of hearing that you are noting is exactly the same no matter what is being heard, what is being heard is irrelevant.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: vipassana question

Post by befriend »

what I mean is if im paying attention to an object then another object comes up stronger should I switch my attention to the new object or should I maintain awareness of the object I was initially observing so I can see its complete shelf life, of arising persisting and disappearing. sorry I see how my post wasn't very clear.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
User avatar
cjmacie
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:49 am

Re: vipassana question

Post by cjmacie »

"what I mean is if im paying attention to an object then another object comes up stronger should I switch my attention to the new object or should I maintain awareness of the object I was initially observing so I can see its complete shelf life, of arising persisting and disappearing. sorry I see how my post wasn't very clear."

Another object takes attention -- there you are; the previous is gone!

If holding to a single object, that's samadhi practice.

If bird chirp takes notice from motorcycle sound, and then back to motorcycle sound, that's actually new object-moment, though mentally fabricated as in "continuity" with the previous motorcycle sounds.

Sounds like noting "doubting which object to direct to" might also occur.

Mahasi "noting" is simplified for beginners as just putting labels on what's noticed moment by moment. The more mature practice, that comes with time, has more to do with "knowing" more fully what it is, the appearance, it's coming, going, details, without falling off into reaction to it.

English "note" relates back to Greek "gnosis" -- direct, full experiential knowing. Looking closely at Mahasi's instructions, it's clear this is what the practice aims for.
User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: vipassana question

Post by Goofaholix »

befriend wrote:what I mean is if im paying attention to an object then another object comes up stronger should I switch my attention to the new object or should I maintain awareness of the object I was initially observing so I can see its complete shelf life, of arising persisting and disappearing. sorry I see how my post wasn't very clear.
It really doesn't matter which sound you are noting, note either or both whichever grabs your attention or seems natural to you, what matters the object should be observing the process of change, and in this case the process of hearing.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
SarathW
Posts: 21239
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: vipassana question

Post by SarathW »

Keeping attention on one object is Samatha practice not Vipassana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: vipassana question

Post by befriend »

thank you all for the replies. :anjali:
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
User avatar
cjmacie
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:49 am

Re: vipassana question

Post by cjmacie »

Postby cjmacie » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:05 am
"If holding to a single object, that's samadhi practice."

Postby SarathW » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:54 pm
"Keeping attention on one object is Samatha practice not Vipassana."

That said, the separation between concentration (samadhi) and insight (vipassana) practices isn't quite as absolute as presented in some forum discussions (or some IM/VM type teachings).

Practicing only jhana clearly doesn't itself lead to awakening, but the sutta-s as well as competent contemporary teachers don’t claim that. Most would probably agree with Ayya Khema – that jhana is a necessary but not sufficient cause for awakening. The two practices are inextricably intertwined on the path.

For all the hype that the Mahasi system is pure "dry" vipassana practice, Mahasi Sayadaw's own teachings clearly point-out that the jhana- and vipassana-approaches are equivalent in effectiveness, and that the vipassana-approach necessarily incorporates intense concentration (his term is vipassana-khanika-samadhi), which is functionally equivalent to what he calls "Jhāna-samādhi" or "Appanāsamādhi". The difference lies in the temperamental leaning (and/or the practice method learned) of the practitioner, as either a "Samathayānika individual" or a "Suddhavipassanayānika individual". Neither is inherently better or worse, nor preferentially emphasized in the Buddha's teachings.

cf. pp. 103-104, and pp. 119-121 in Chapter II "CITTA VISUDDHI" / "Purification of the mind", in:
http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sa ... part_i.pdf
practitioner
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:30 pm

Re: vipassana question

Post by practitioner »

There is room for you to experiment to see what works for you. The over arching principle is to note the arising and disappearing of an object. Stick with your original object until it disappear, then note the next object. If none, note your tummy or breathing, whichever is your preference.

The first insight is to realize that all phenomenon arise and disappear without self essence. Seeing your being is simply mental and material phenomenon such that you realize anatta is the first knowledge of insight.

Dont worry too much about the stacked object. First insight is noting how your life is simply mental and material process without a self in it.
User avatar
pilgrim
Posts: 1679
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: vipassana question

Post by pilgrim »

befriend wrote:what I mean is if im paying attention to an object then another object comes up stronger should I switch my attention to the new object or should I maintain awareness of the object I was initially observing so I can see its complete shelf life, of arising persisting and disappearing. sorry I see how my post wasn't very clear.
Whether its the wind, the birds or a passing motorbike, it is still hearing. That's what you need to be aware or - the process of hearing. It is your own perception ( sanna ) that differentiates the sound according to its origin. With strong and continous sati, you will just be aware of "hearing" without perception butting into your consciousness and making judgements on what sounds are being heard.

Subsequently, if your attention is attracted to another sensory object, like a body sensation, then you become aware of touching or pain, etc..
fasakhi
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:07 am

Re: vipassana question

Post by fasakhi »

thank you all for the replies.
Post Reply