I have just attended 10 days S.N. Goenka course. I find it a very nice technique and enjoyed it even tho couldn't keep sitting full 1 hour due to legs pain arising about 45 min after the start of the meditation hehe.
But i had many question concerning this meditation... the thing is that I'm new to buddhism and such kind of meditation, i was introduced to such kind of meditation due to my interest in Qi energy and healing through it. Also, I can feel it on my hands and if i move it over a body part i can feel a thick layer of energy and such.
Goenka in his teaching never ever mentioned Qi energy or meridians or healing others or even chakras so it got me wondering if these things actually exist or not?
I know that the Qi flow where the focus flows.. so it came to my mind that when we do the breathing exercise and sharpen our attention, it means we are doing it like a needle and with scanning the body, we are going through each acupuncture and over the grid of meridians of Qi and so the healing happens.. by balancing the clogged Qi on body... what do you think about such conclusion?
I was wondering also if the Buddha ever mentioned thing about the Qi and energy?
And why the huge focus on mind,, and neglecting the Heart which contains brain cells and proven by science that it creates a big field of vibration/energy all around the person affecting his environment and people around.
Also, as i understood the process is you scan the body for sensation and you watch them as they go away right? is it only like that? isn't there a deeper level, for example can you move your focus/awareness into another object/ out of body?
May all beings live in Peace and Harmony..
Vipassana and Qi energy?
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
Short answer, Qi energy has nothing to do with Vipassana.
Long answer, yes, there is a relationship, because all the things are interacting together. But if you wish to pursue the goal of Vipassana, which is insight into the ultimate nature of reality, it's better to go by the short answer
The mind is more important than the body. The main goal of the meditation practice is to train and purify the mind. If that is not achieved, the mind will continue to do what it does best: produce suffering, ignorance, pain, distress.
Also, it's not possible to teach the brain cells in your Heart how to meditate. But it is possible to teach the mind how to meditate.
Besides that, the body only lasts few years (a single lifetime), so we shouldn't get obsessed with it.
Methods which direct Qi will use more sustained focus, directed through certain channels of energy or meridians. Which, if not used properly can create discomfort, imbalances.
A meditation teacher said that this energy is supposed to be cultivated in the mind and not in the body. People who cultivate it in the body sometimes complain about tension or headaches or other issues.
Long answer, yes, there is a relationship, because all the things are interacting together. But if you wish to pursue the goal of Vipassana, which is insight into the ultimate nature of reality, it's better to go by the short answer
First, the root of all your problems is in the mind.And why the huge focus on mind,, and neglecting the Heart which contains brain cells and proven by science that it creates a big field of vibration/energy all around the person affecting his environment and people around.
The mind is more important than the body. The main goal of the meditation practice is to train and purify the mind. If that is not achieved, the mind will continue to do what it does best: produce suffering, ignorance, pain, distress.
Also, it's not possible to teach the brain cells in your Heart how to meditate. But it is possible to teach the mind how to meditate.
Besides that, the body only lasts few years (a single lifetime), so we shouldn't get obsessed with it.
The method of scanning that you learned aims to cultivate detached awareness, not direct Qi. Any energy balancing is a side-effect.I know that the Qi flow where the focus flows.. so it came to my mind that when we do the breathing exercise and sharpen our attention, it means we are doing it like a needle and with scanning the body
Methods which direct Qi will use more sustained focus, directed through certain channels of energy or meridians. Which, if not used properly can create discomfort, imbalances.
A meditation teacher said that this energy is supposed to be cultivated in the mind and not in the body. People who cultivate it in the body sometimes complain about tension or headaches or other issues.
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
If you're interested in working with energy channels, you may want to look into some teachings within the Thai Forest Tradition, such as Ven. Thanissaro's (see his book With Each And Every Breath or his guided meditations for more details).
Metta :)
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
Thank you for your detailed answer... I was just trying to understand the link between meditation and purifying the mind that lead also to healing of some illness and boosting immunity system and etc of other effects.. and the chi that is also interrelated with the body and can be used to heal and such.Pinetree wrote:Short answer, Qi energy has nothing to do with Vipassana.
Long answer, yes, there is a relationship, because all the things are interacting together. But if you wish to pursue the goal of Vipassana, which is insight into the ultimate nature of reality, it's better to go by the short answer
First, the root of all your problems is in the mind.And why the huge focus on mind,, and neglecting the Heart which contains brain cells and proven by science that it creates a big field of vibration/energy all around the person affecting his environment and people around.
The mind is more important than the body. The main goal of the meditation practice is to train and purify the mind. If that is not achieved, the mind will continue to do what it does best: produce suffering, ignorance, pain, distress.
Also, it's not possible to teach the brain cells in your Heart how to meditate. But it is possible to teach the mind how to meditate.
Besides that, the body only lasts few years (a single lifetime), so we shouldn't get obsessed with it.
The method of scanning that you learned aims to cultivate detached awareness, not direct Qi. Any energy balancing is a side-effect.I know that the Qi flow where the focus flows.. so it came to my mind that when we do the breathing exercise and sharpen our attention, it means we are doing it like a needle and with scanning the body
Methods which direct Qi will use more sustained focus, directed through certain channels of energy or meridians. Which, if not used properly can create discomfort, imbalances.
A meditation teacher said that this energy is supposed to be cultivated in the mind and not in the body. People who cultivate it in the body sometimes complain about tension or headaches or other issues.
Also, after scan your body, as Goenka says you can come to a degree of feel your body vibrating (energy) and at the end of the meditation, you do metta meditation sending energy of love and compassion which is chi...and he says that it is preferred to do metta after there is no sensation of pain or such... so i m missing the link.
I don't have enough knowledge in those stuff such as buddhism or scripture or anything that is why i m asking.
Thank you for your answer!
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
I do like to know more about energy, but also trying to understand the link between meditation of vipassana and the energy since at the end of the course Goenka teaches the Metta meditation which is sending energy of love and compassion out of you... which is chi but how does the vipassana work in allowing this energy to flow and mechanism of such thing and levels...Max Nanasy wrote:If you're interested in working with energy channels, you may want to look into some teachings within the Thai Forest Tradition, such as Ven. Thanissaro's (see his book With Each And Every Breath or his guided meditations for more details).
Thank you for your answer!!
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
Buddha did not directly talk about Chakras and Qi energy.
However his teaching, walking meditation and breath meditation may lead to the same outcome of Chakra or Qi energy.
Vipassana is more to do with the mind and mind objects.
Body awareness of breathing and walking is only a preparation stage for Vipassana.
It is important to note that body and mind are interdependent.
See the following link to see how I see the connection.
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 349&hilit=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
However his teaching, walking meditation and breath meditation may lead to the same outcome of Chakra or Qi energy.
Vipassana is more to do with the mind and mind objects.
Body awareness of breathing and walking is only a preparation stage for Vipassana.
It is important to note that body and mind are interdependent.
See the following link to see how I see the connection.
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 349&hilit=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by SarathW on Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
Hi jean282,
I think the point is that in the development of samadhi in meditation one may well develop capabilities that could be described by the Indian or Chinese energy models (Thanissaro, I believe uses the Indian ones, following Ajahn Lee, who spent some time in India).
And some knowledge of those systems might be helpful in sorting out certain problems met in meditation, and in other aspects of life. Just as yoga or Tai Chi exercises can be helpful.
But the aim of the Buddhist meditation approaches is not to harness such energies, but to attain insight into impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not-self nature of existence, and ultimately to end all suffering. In that sense, they are not part of the path.
Mike
I think the point is that in the development of samadhi in meditation one may well develop capabilities that could be described by the Indian or Chinese energy models (Thanissaro, I believe uses the Indian ones, following Ajahn Lee, who spent some time in India).
And some knowledge of those systems might be helpful in sorting out certain problems met in meditation, and in other aspects of life. Just as yoga or Tai Chi exercises can be helpful.
But the aim of the Buddhist meditation approaches is not to harness such energies, but to attain insight into impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not-self nature of existence, and ultimately to end all suffering. In that sense, they are not part of the path.
Mike
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
Qi is raw and general life force. Although mettā is a form of qi, it isn't qi as it is usual understood—i.e., life force. You could try looking for mentions of qi in Buddhist texts, but I think you would have a hard time doing so. However, qi is obviously a part of matter and the physical body, so in a way it is also part of Buddhism. I don't know if vipassanā increases the flow and amount of qi in one's body, but samādhi, satipaṭṭhāna and walking meditation probably help.jean282 wrote:I do like to know more about energy, but also trying to understand the link between meditation of vipassana and the energy since at the end of the course Goenka teaches the Metta meditation which is sending energy of love and compassion out of you... which is chi but how does the vipassana work in allowing this energy to flow and mechanism of such thing and levels...
Thank you for your answer!!
If you do want to look into something Buddhist and that touches on qi and chakras, you can read Piyadhassi Bhikkhu's Vimuttidhamma, From Chakra to Dhammachakra. But do take note that most of what he teaches in this book is more in line with contemporary commentaries and personal opinions rather than actual teachings from the Tipiṭaka.
EDIT: I'd like to rephrase the above, in saying that Ven. Piyadhassi's work does have a more contemporary and not necessarily a Buddhist approach regarding chakras and such, but what he writes still is rooted in Buddhist teachings.
http://vimuttidhamma.org/Vimuttidhamma% ... hikkhu.pdf
Last edited by samseva on Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
Thanks for the link Samseva.
Is Ven. Piyadhassi a Thai monk?
Is Ven. Piyadhassi a Thai monk?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
Yes.SarathW wrote:Is Ven. Piyadhassi a Thai monk?
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
I found the following link as well.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=10479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=10479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
The link is like this:I was just trying to understand the link between meditation and purifying the mind that lead also to healing of some illness and boosting immunity system and etc of other effects.. and the chi that is also interrelated with the body and can be used to heal and such.
1. Tension within the mind creates tension within the body.
2. Meditation purifies the mind
3. If not tension arises in the mind, there is no tension arising in the body.
Methods like tai chi and qigong work with the body aswell.
For Vipassana, the body does not exist, only the sensations and perceptions which arise in the mind. If your back hurts, the back doesn't exist, only the sensation of pain arising in the mind. Like somebody said above, we are only working with mind objects.
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
In Vipassana we contemplate on the body as well.
Four great elements , repulsiveness of the body etc are body contemplations.
Four great elements , repulsiveness of the body etc are body contemplations.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
Qi and mind are inseparable. Qi following the mind.
To understand this I suggest to read book called Tao Longevity by Master Nan Hui Jin, he is explaining how why and when it happens and the stages of this.
To understand this I suggest to read book called Tao Longevity by Master Nan Hui Jin, he is explaining how why and when it happens and the stages of this.
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it!
Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?
It's a bit difficult to explain, but no, we don't.In Vipassana we contemplate on the body as well.
Instead, we contemplate the representation pr perception of the body which is found inside the mind.
This is probably one of the reasons meditation retreats like Goenka's don't include physical exercise.
Not sure if this can be said, but I'd say that for Vipassana, the mind should follow the Qi, and not the other way around.Qi and mind are inseparable. Qi following the mind.