Vipassana and Qi energy?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
Caodemarte
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Caodemarte » Sun May 22, 2016 1:30 pm

There is a "sutta which says that Rahula and other buddhas are still alive after cultivation of seed-Qi." Do you have a citation for this? What term are you replacing with the term seed-Qi?

zengen
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by zengen » Mon May 30, 2016 2:51 am

Buddha talked about the mind. I don't think Buddha talked about Qi energy in the Sutta.
There is no meaning to cyclic existence.

Caodemarte
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Caodemarte » Mon May 30, 2016 1:38 pm

Qi is a Chinese concept so I was really asking what Indian term the other poster was replacing with Qi since a sutra/sutra source was improbably claimed. Some Chinese Buddhists use or have absorbed the concept of Qi, especially as part of traditional Chinese medicine, as they have other parts of their culture. It is not something intrinsic to Buddhism or uniquely related to it.

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samseva
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by samseva » Mon May 30, 2016 5:11 pm

Caodemarte wrote:Qi is a Chinese concept so I was really asking what Indian term the other poster was replacing with Qi since a sutra/sutra source was improbably claimed. Some Chinese Buddhists use or have absorbed the concept of Qi, especially as part of traditional Chinese medicine, as they have other parts of their culture. It is not something intrinsic to Buddhism or uniquely related to it.
While the word 'Qi' is Chinese, life force or energy isn't solely Chinese. 'Prana', in Indian culture, probably is very close to this.

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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Pinetree » Mon May 30, 2016 5:45 pm

Prana is more the air energy. Prana is more trendy with certain people, while others are more into the fire energy, for example.

The structure of energies in the Indian context is quite complex, and is usually is correlated with the elements.

The word "energy" is quite vague, can be applied to many things that we know and don't know. I'm getting the feeling the Qi is the same.

I do not know of any word from the Hindu culture which has this degree of generality.

That being said, Vipassana leans a lot to the "internal" workings of the mind, so I have doubts it can be linked to "external" concepts, such as energy.

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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by mikenz66 » Mon May 30, 2016 7:19 pm

If you are interested in energy practices then, as I pointed out above, Thanissaro Bhikkhu is one example of a teacher who uses energy ideas in his meditation instructions. I'm not so familiar with the details, since I don't use his approach, but he discussed ho Ajahn Lee learned some energy practices in India in this series of talks:
The Thai Forest Masters

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gerard
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by gerard » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:21 am

Pinetree wrote:The mind is more important than the body. The main goal of the meditation practice is to train and purify the mind. If that is not achieved, the mind will continue to do what it does best: produce suffering, ignorance, pain, distress.
They are both equally important.

A blocked body will never unlock the mind.

Hence find the correct and best method for you that blocks the body in order to understand and purify the mind. First purify the body and then start working on the mind.

Many on the Buddhist path miss this very important point and fail as a result or get stagnant for a very, very long time seeing no progress.

Chinese Internal Martial Arts are great methods to work both on the body and and the mind. Chinese Medicine is incredibly effective to heal the damaged body and restore its original nature but one must do a lot on internal work because the fetters are merciless, especially lust, craving and delusion.

Good luck! :)

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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Pinetree » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:19 pm

A blocked body will never unlock the mind.
Many on the Buddhist path miss this very important point and fail as a result or get stagnant for a very, very long time seeing no progress.
What do you mean by progress ? Because - if you judge progress on a body-based criteria, certainly that you'll reach that conclusion.

Caodemarte
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Caodemarte » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:16 pm

Are the body and mind separate?

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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Virgo » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:27 am

jean282 wrote: I was wondering also if the Buddha ever mentioned thing about the Qi and energy?
Nope. The Buddha's message is summed up in the Four Noble Truths.

The Buddha did certainly teach The Eightfold Path. This includes practicing meditation (but not with Qi or any other energies).

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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:53 am

Virgo wrote:
jean282 wrote: I was wondering also if the Buddha ever mentioned thing about the Qi and energy?
Nope. The Buddha's message is summed up in the Four Noble Truths.

The Buddha did certainly teach The Eightfold Path. This includes practicing meditation (but not with Qi or any other energies).

Kevin
He certainly did not teach energy stuff, but MN I 243 does suggest he may have tried an extreme version of energy practice.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Virgo » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:25 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote: Nope. The Buddha's message is summed up in the Four Noble Truths.

The Buddha did certainly teach The Eightfold Path. This includes practicing meditation (but not with Qi or any other energies).

Kevin
He certainly did not teach energy stuff, but MN I 243 does suggest he may have tried an extreme version of energy practice.
The Mūlapariyāya Sutta?

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tiltbillings
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:29 am

Virgo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote: Nope. The Buddha's message is summed up in the Four Noble Truths.

The Buddha did certainly teach The Eightfold Path. This includes practicing meditation (but not with Qi or any other energies).

Kevin
He certainly did not teach energy stuff, but MN I 243 does suggest he may have tried an extreme version of energy practice.
The Mūlapariyāya Sutta?

Kevin
MN 36; PTS: M i 237; Maha-Saccaka Sutta
    • "I thought: 'Suppose I were to become absorbed in the trance of non-breathing.' So I stopped the in-breaths & out-breaths in my nose & mouth. As I did so, there was a loud roaring of winds coming out my earholes, just like the loud roar of winds coming out of a smith's bellows... So I stopped the in-breaths & out-breaths in my nose & mouth & ears. As I did so, extreme forces sliced through my head, just as if a strong man were slicing my head open with a sharp sword... Extreme pains arose in my head, just as if a strong man were tightening a turban made of tough leather straps around my head... Extreme forces carved up my stomach cavity, just as if a butcher or his apprentice were to carve up the stomach cavity of an ox... There was an extreme burning in my body, just as if two strong men, grabbing a weaker man by the arms, were to roast & broil him over a pit of hot embers. And although tireless persistence was aroused in me, and unmuddled mindfulness established, my body was aroused & uncalm because of the painful exertion. But the painful feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.--MN I 243
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Virgo » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:14 pm

tiltbillings wrote:He certainly did not teach energy stuff, but MN I 243 does suggest he may have tried an extreme version of energy practice.
The Mūlapariyāya Sutta?

...
    • "I thought: 'Suppose I were to become absorbed in the trance of non-breathing.' So I stopped the in-breaths & out-breaths in my nose & mouth. As I did so, there was a loud roaring of winds coming out my earholes, just like the loud roar of winds coming out of a smith's bellows...

Ah yes, I can see how that could be considered 'an extreme version of energy practice'.

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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by practitioner » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:00 pm

Qi was discovered in China by Lao Zi whose teaching became Taoism. Prana was discovered independently in India. Orgone was discovered in USA in the 1940s by Frued's protege. Qi and prana and orgone are the different names referring to the same energy.

Energy is not a focus of Buddha though he knows about energy.

Body scan is a form of qi practice instead of true vipassana. The constant directing of the mind to feel sensation at certain area in certain order induces energy. Where the mind intents, qi flows followed by blood. This explains why some people feel wave energy streaming through their body. With mind sensing my hand through my arm to the heart then out the other hand I can cause energy to move in circle in my body. This is a type of qi meditation that a Shaolin monk, who focus on qi practice to do kung fu, taught me. Hence, this meditation differs from the body scan only in terms of the area of scan and that I dont think about the nature of sensation.

Hence, body scan is more about developing equanimity - training the mind to not have preference, over and over again. Passive vipassana is the process of observing sensations wherever it comes from, dictated by nature rather than mind's intention, and seeing them arising and passing away.

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