Vipassana and Qi energy?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
jean282
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Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by jean282 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:37 am

I have just attended 10 days S.N. Goenka course. I find it a very nice technique and enjoyed it even tho couldn't keep sitting full 1 hour due to legs pain arising about 45 min after the start of the meditation hehe.

But i had many question concerning this meditation... the thing is that I'm new to buddhism and such kind of meditation, i was introduced to such kind of meditation due to my interest in Qi energy and healing through it. Also, I can feel it on my hands and if i move it over a body part i can feel a thick layer of energy and such.

Goenka in his teaching never ever mentioned Qi energy or meridians or healing others or even chakras so it got me wondering if these things actually exist or not?
I know that the Qi flow where the focus flows.. so it came to my mind that when we do the breathing exercise and sharpen our attention, it means we are doing it like a needle and with scanning the body, we are going through each acupuncture and over the grid of meridians of Qi and so the healing happens.. by balancing the clogged Qi on body... what do you think about such conclusion?

I was wondering also if the Buddha ever mentioned thing about the Qi and energy?

And why the huge focus on mind,, and neglecting the Heart which contains brain cells and proven by science that it creates a big field of vibration/energy all around the person affecting his environment and people around.

Also, as i understood the process is you scan the body for sensation and you watch them as they go away right? is it only like that? isn't there a deeper level, for example can you move your focus/awareness into another object/ out of body?

May all beings live in Peace and Harmony..

Pinetree
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Pinetree » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:51 pm

Short answer, Qi energy has nothing to do with Vipassana.

Long answer, yes, there is a relationship, because all the things are interacting together. But if you wish to pursue the goal of Vipassana, which is insight into the ultimate nature of reality, it's better to go by the short answer :)
And why the huge focus on mind,, and neglecting the Heart which contains brain cells and proven by science that it creates a big field of vibration/energy all around the person affecting his environment and people around.
First, the root of all your problems is in the mind.

The mind is more important than the body. The main goal of the meditation practice is to train and purify the mind. If that is not achieved, the mind will continue to do what it does best: produce suffering, ignorance, pain, distress.

Also, it's not possible to teach the brain cells in your Heart how to meditate. But it is possible to teach the mind how to meditate.

Besides that, the body only lasts few years (a single lifetime), so we shouldn't get obsessed with it.
I know that the Qi flow where the focus flows.. so it came to my mind that when we do the breathing exercise and sharpen our attention, it means we are doing it like a needle and with scanning the body
The method of scanning that you learned aims to cultivate detached awareness, not direct Qi. Any energy balancing is a side-effect.

Methods which direct Qi will use more sustained focus, directed through certain channels of energy or meridians. Which, if not used properly can create discomfort, imbalances.

A meditation teacher said that this energy is supposed to be cultivated in the mind and not in the body. People who cultivate it in the body sometimes complain about tension or headaches or other issues.

Max Nanasy
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Max Nanasy » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:52 pm

If you're interested in working with energy channels, you may want to look into some teachings within the Thai Forest Tradition, such as Ven. Thanissaro's (see his book With Each And Every Breath or his guided meditations for more details).
Metta :)

jean282
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by jean282 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:03 pm

Pinetree wrote:Short answer, Qi energy has nothing to do with Vipassana.

Long answer, yes, there is a relationship, because all the things are interacting together. But if you wish to pursue the goal of Vipassana, which is insight into the ultimate nature of reality, it's better to go by the short answer :)
And why the huge focus on mind,, and neglecting the Heart which contains brain cells and proven by science that it creates a big field of vibration/energy all around the person affecting his environment and people around.
First, the root of all your problems is in the mind.

The mind is more important than the body. The main goal of the meditation practice is to train and purify the mind. If that is not achieved, the mind will continue to do what it does best: produce suffering, ignorance, pain, distress.

Also, it's not possible to teach the brain cells in your Heart how to meditate. But it is possible to teach the mind how to meditate.

Besides that, the body only lasts few years (a single lifetime), so we shouldn't get obsessed with it.
I know that the Qi flow where the focus flows.. so it came to my mind that when we do the breathing exercise and sharpen our attention, it means we are doing it like a needle and with scanning the body
The method of scanning that you learned aims to cultivate detached awareness, not direct Qi. Any energy balancing is a side-effect.

Methods which direct Qi will use more sustained focus, directed through certain channels of energy or meridians. Which, if not used properly can create discomfort, imbalances.

A meditation teacher said that this energy is supposed to be cultivated in the mind and not in the body. People who cultivate it in the body sometimes complain about tension or headaches or other issues.
Thank you for your detailed answer... I was just trying to understand the link between meditation and purifying the mind that lead also to healing of some illness and boosting immunity system and etc of other effects.. and the chi that is also interrelated with the body and can be used to heal and such.
Also, after scan your body, as Goenka says you can come to a degree of feel your body vibrating (energy) and at the end of the meditation, you do metta meditation sending energy of love and compassion which is chi...and he says that it is preferred to do metta after there is no sensation of pain or such... so i m missing the link.
I don't have enough knowledge in those stuff such as buddhism or scripture or anything that is why i m asking.
Thank you for your answer! :heart:

jean282
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by jean282 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:05 pm

Max Nanasy wrote:If you're interested in working with energy channels, you may want to look into some teachings within the Thai Forest Tradition, such as Ven. Thanissaro's (see his book With Each And Every Breath or his guided meditations for more details).
I do like to know more about energy, but also trying to understand the link between meditation of vipassana and the energy since at the end of the course Goenka teaches the Metta meditation which is sending energy of love and compassion out of you... which is chi but how does the vipassana work in allowing this energy to flow and mechanism of such thing and levels...
Thank you for your answer!! :heart:

SarathW
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:57 pm

Buddha did not directly talk about Chakras and Qi energy.
However his teaching, walking meditation and breath meditation may lead to the same outcome of Chakra or Qi energy.
Vipassana is more to do with the mind and mind objects.
Body awareness of breathing and walking is only a preparation stage for Vipassana.
It is important to note that body and mind are interdependent.
See the following link to see how I see the connection.

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 349&hilit=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by SarathW on Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:01 pm

Hi jean282,

I think the point is that in the development of samadhi in meditation one may well develop capabilities that could be described by the Indian or Chinese energy models (Thanissaro, I believe uses the Indian ones, following Ajahn Lee, who spent some time in India).
And some knowledge of those systems might be helpful in sorting out certain problems met in meditation, and in other aspects of life. Just as yoga or Tai Chi exercises can be helpful.

But the aim of the Buddhist meditation approaches is not to harness such energies, but to attain insight into impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not-self nature of existence, and ultimately to end all suffering. In that sense, they are not part of the path.

:anjali:
Mike

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samseva
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by samseva » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:04 pm

jean282 wrote:I do like to know more about energy, but also trying to understand the link between meditation of vipassana and the energy since at the end of the course Goenka teaches the Metta meditation which is sending energy of love and compassion out of you... which is chi but how does the vipassana work in allowing this energy to flow and mechanism of such thing and levels...
Thank you for your answer!! :heart:
Qi is raw and general life force. Although mettā is a form of qi, it isn't qi as it is usual understood—i.e., life force. You could try looking for mentions of qi in Buddhist texts, but I think you would have a hard time doing so. However, qi is obviously a part of matter and the physical body, so in a way it is also part of Buddhism. I don't know if vipassanā increases the flow and amount of qi in one's body, but samādhi, satipaṭṭhāna and walking meditation probably help.

If you do want to look into something Buddhist and that touches on qi and chakras, you can read Piyadhassi Bhikkhu's Vimuttidhamma, From Chakra to Dhammachakra. But do take note that most of what he teaches in this book is more in line with contemporary commentaries and personal opinions rather than actual teachings from the Tipiṭaka.

EDIT: I'd like to rephrase the above, in saying that Ven. Piyadhassi's work does have a more contemporary and not necessarily a Buddhist approach regarding chakras and such, but what he writes still is rooted in Buddhist teachings.

http://vimuttidhamma.org/Vimuttidhamma% ... hikkhu.pdf
Last edited by samseva on Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

SarathW
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by SarathW » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:02 am

Thanks for the link Samseva.
Is Ven. Piyadhassi a Thai monk?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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samseva
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by samseva » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:25 am

SarathW wrote:Is Ven. Piyadhassi a Thai monk?
Yes.

SarathW
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by SarathW » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:29 am

I found the following link as well.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=10479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Pinetree
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Pinetree » Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:07 am

I was just trying to understand the link between meditation and purifying the mind that lead also to healing of some illness and boosting immunity system and etc of other effects.. and the chi that is also interrelated with the body and can be used to heal and such.
The link is like this:

1. Tension within the mind creates tension within the body.

2. Meditation purifies the mind

3. If not tension arises in the mind, there is no tension arising in the body.

Methods like tai chi and qigong work with the body aswell.

For Vipassana, the body does not exist, only the sensations and perceptions which arise in the mind. If your back hurts, the back doesn't exist, only the sensation of pain arising in the mind. Like somebody said above, we are only working with mind objects.

SarathW
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by SarathW » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:12 am

In Vipassana we contemplate on the body as well.
Four great elements , repulsiveness of the body etc are body contemplations.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Saoshun
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Saoshun » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:38 am

Qi and mind are inseparable. Qi following the mind.

To understand this I suggest to read book called Tao Longevity by Master Nan Hui Jin, he is explaining how why and when it happens and the stages of this.
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:

Pinetree
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Re: Vipassana and Qi energy?

Post by Pinetree » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:07 am

In Vipassana we contemplate on the body as well.
It's a bit difficult to explain, but no, we don't.

Instead, we contemplate the representation pr perception of the body which is found inside the mind.

This is probably one of the reasons meditation retreats like Goenka's don't include physical exercise.
Qi and mind are inseparable. Qi following the mind.
Not sure if this can be said, but I'd say that for Vipassana, the mind should follow the Qi, and not the other way around.

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