Goenka and Sotāpanna

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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Myotai
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Goenka and Sotāpanna

Post by Myotai » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:10 pm

I am new to Goenkas style and teachings. One of the things I like but also makes me feel a little tetchy is how he implies that Sotāpanna is relatively easily accessible. In fact much of what I have read and heard seems to imply that Nibbana is just around the corner.

I mean its inspiring but is it realistic?

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Monkey Mind
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Re: Goenka and Sotāpanna

Post by Monkey Mind » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:59 pm

Hmmm... I have never interpreted Mr. Goenka's words as implying it is easy. He repeatedly and overtly states that it is a lifetime endeavor, and one that requires hard work and diligence. The good news, according to him, is that stream-entry is possible for a lay person, if they are willing to work for it.

I am wondering, which quote(s) have you that impression?
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

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Ben
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Re: Goenka and Sotāpanna

Post by Ben » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:59 pm

I second monkey mind's observations.
Kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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Myotai
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Re: Goenka and Sotāpanna

Post by Myotai » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:54 am

Monkey Mind wrote:Hmmm... I have never interpreted Mr. Goenka's words as implying it is easy. He repeatedly and overtly states that it is a lifetime endeavor, and one that requires hard work and diligence. The good news, according to him, is that stream-entry is possible for a lay person, if they are willing to work for it.

I am wondering, which quote(s) have you that impression?
Maybe I am misinterpreting him. I think I may have got most of it from 'The Art of Living'.

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Weakfocus
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Re: Goenka and Sotāpanna

Post by Weakfocus » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:07 am

Myotai wrote:Maybe I am misinterpreting him. I think I may have got most of it from 'The Art of Living'.
Have you attended your first 10-day course yet, Myotai? Do so, it will help you understand many little things that cannot be appreciated by merely reading books and articles.

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Goenka and Sotāpanna

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:29 am

Myotai wrote:I am new to Goenkas style and teachings. One of the things I like but also makes me feel a little tetchy is how he implies that Sotāpanna is relatively easily accessible. In fact much of what I have read and heard seems to imply that Nibbana is just around the corner.

I mean its inspiring but is it realistic?
I expect what he may mean that it's 'simple', but I would opine that in this instance, 'simple' certainly does not imply 'easy'.....

We 'Simply' have to drop attachment.
We 'simply' have to 'end' suffering.
We 'simply' have to completely accept and live by the 4NT, the 8Fold Path and the 5/8 precepts (as laypersons).
we 'simply' have to meditate.
We 'simply' have to embrace the Brahma~Viharas.

All this - is 'simple'.
But 'Easy'.....?

I really do not think so!
Last edited by TheNoBSBuddhist on Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Myotai
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Re: Goenka and Sotāpanna

Post by Myotai » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:57 am

Weakfocus wrote:
Myotai wrote:Maybe I am misinterpreting him. I think I may have got most of it from 'The Art of Living'.
Have you attended your first 10-day course yet, Myotai? Do so, it will help you understand many little things that cannot be appreciated by merely reading books and articles.
No not yet and I suspect you're right.

I should emphasise that my OP wasn't in any way a criticism, just an observation as to how I was interpreting things. :toast:

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