How do you contemplate anatta?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
Dinsdale
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:10 am

SamKR wrote: The deeply held view that "I am seeing" is just an imputation based on ignorance.
Which suggests that it's only with the cessation of ignorance that there will be cessation of self-view.
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pegembara
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by pegembara » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:55 am

(1) In the seen (heard, sensed, cognized) there is no object being seen (heard, sensed, cognized); in the seen there is merely the seen (the experience/presence of seeing).
In other words, whatever "we" see is not an object lying out there; whatever "we" see is just the seen.
Objects cannot be seen. The deeply held view that "there is really that object lying out there, and I am seeing that object" is just an imputation based on ignorance. Nothing can be seen except the seen itself.
There is only the process of hearing. No hearer and no heard. What actually hears? Is it the eardrum, ear ossicles, cochlea, auditory nerve or brain? What is heard is nothing but vibrations. The "self" is an activity, not an entity. Even the ear is not truly existent(anatta) without its parts (the eardrum, ear ossicles, cochlea, auditory nerve or brain)

Image
Why now do you assume 'a being'?
Mara, have you grasped a view?
This is a heap of sheer constructions:
Here no being is found.

Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word 'chariot' is used,
So, when the aggregates are present,
There's the convention 'a being.'

It's only suffering that comes to be,
Suffering that stands and falls away.
Nothing but suffering comes to be,
Nothing but suffering ceases.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

Dinsdale
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:06 pm

pegembara wrote: There is only the process of hearing.
Well, yes, contact arises in dependence on sound, ear and ear-consciousness. But in dependence on that contact there arises feeling and the various mental processes represented by the formations aggregate, including volition and subsequent behaviour.
Focussing on processes rather than entities is a useful approach, but I'm not sure it gets to the root of self-view.
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reflection
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by reflection » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:28 pm

Contemplating how an ear works is looking from the outside. Contemplating anatta is on the inside, on experiences.

SamKR
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by SamKR » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:06 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
SamKR wrote: The deeply held view that "I am seeing" is just an imputation based on ignorance.
Which suggests that it's only with the cessation of ignorance that there will be cessation of self-view.
I would say, yes. They are interdependent.

Ignorance == ignorance-of-ignorance
In other words, ignorance is the ignorance about the fact that dependent on ignorance itself sankhara...dukkha (including self-view) co-arise.

Cessation-of-ignorance == gnosis-of-ignorance + gnosis-of-cessation-of-ignorance
In other words, cessation-of-ignorance is the gnosis that
-- dependent on ignorance itself sankhara...dukkha (including self-view) co-arise, and that
-- with the cessation of ignorance there is cessation of sankhara...dukkha (including self-view).

Dinsdale
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:54 am

reflection wrote:Contemplating how an ear works is looking from the outside. Contemplating anatta is on the inside, on experiences.
Sure, although using "external" analogies like chariots could be a way in for some people. For me looking at collections of parts is a bit too static though.
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Dinsdale
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:14 am

BlackBird wrote:After this, sabbe dhammā anattā, 'All things are not-self', follows as a matter of course.[e]
I have a sense that anatta and anicca are 2 sides of the same coin, the coin being conditionality. I think... ;)
Last edited by Dinsdale on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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barcsimalsi
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by barcsimalsi » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:43 pm

A compilation of the not self strategy translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Hope it helps.

Personally, i contemplate on the 5 aggregates but i won't argue that i've no self because the self is the reference point for perceiving an individual identity which is of course not an entity but only a view.

My practice is simple; just remind myself the 5 aggregates are impermanent and conditioned so in regards to the Buddha's teaching, it will be a bad idea to cling to them.

Dinsdale
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:12 pm

barcsimalsi wrote:A compilation of the not self strategy translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Hope it helps.
Thanks. I found this observation interesting:
"Although the concept "not-self" is a useful way of disentangling oneself from the attachments & clingings which lead to suffering, the view that there is no self is simply one of many metaphysical or ontological views which bind one to suffering."
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Dinsdale
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:13 pm

barcsimalsi wrote: My practice is simple; just remind myself the 5 aggregates are impermanent and conditioned so in regards to the Buddha's teaching, it will be a bad idea to cling to them.
Could you say how you actually do that?
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barcsimalsi
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by barcsimalsi » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:49 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
barcsimalsi wrote: My practice is simple; just remind myself the 5 aggregates are impermanent and conditioned so in regards to the Buddha's teaching, it will be a bad idea to cling to them.
Could you say how you actually do that?
Whenever i felt over excited or frustrated with something especially things that associate with my self view, i will put into practice the contemplation of anicca towards the 5 aggregates. With understanding that any of the 5 aggregates is impermanent and conditioned, i find that everything will pass and there's nothing i can actually hold to hence there's nothing to be sad nor brag about my identity and this resulting of letting go. It is about being mindful and employing right effort at the right time. And you can practice it at any time.

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Soe Win Htut
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Soe Win Htut » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:42 pm

Let me explain how i contemplate about Anatta; as I can understand about it;

Anatta means non-self, not entity, not soul, not ego, not something, not someone, not sometime, not someplace, not individual, not I, not you, or not being etc.

Self, entity, soul, ego, something, feeling, emotion, sensation, memory, thought, thinking, someone, sometime, someplace, individual, I, you or being are just created truths (Sammuti sacca).
They are not real. They are not real existence or real importance.
The truth of Created Truths are { to-use-only, to-experience-only, and to know-only} and Created truths are not to be rejected not attached, being taken as reality or real importance.
But the created truths seems to be real or in real importance because of the ignorance or wrong understanding of the created truths.

Due to the wrong understanding, everything, everyone, Self, entity, soul, ego, something, someone, sometime, someplace, individual, I, you or being seems to be real and in real importance.

ONLY the cause of "the ignorance of the truth of the created truths" causes the result of misunderstanding that Self, entity, soul, ego, something, feeling, emotion, sensation, memory, thought, thinking, someone, sometime, someplace, individual, I, you or being -etc.

ONLY THIS CAUSE AND THAT EFFECT ARE EXISTING REALLY IN THE FORM OF EVER-NEW IMPERMANENT NATURE. (ANNATTA).
SOMETHING, SOMEONE, SELF, EGO, SOUL, ENTITY, INDIVIDUAL, OR BEING IS NOT REALLY EXISTING.

WHATEVER OUR PERCEPTION CURRENTLY SENSES such as form, feeling, memory, volition, thinking are JUST CREATED TRUTHS.
IF something is changing, decaying, transient, inconsistent, impermanent and passing away, how should it be taken as reality or real existence?

They are not real existence. Whatever our current perceptions are detecting is "not to be rejected nor attached" as reality or real importance, but they are JUST "to be used-only, and experienced-only and known-only". No more for anything.

BY CONTEMPLATING LIKE THAT, DETACHMENT WILL COME OUT regarding to the MIND & BODY.

with metta,
Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known onlyWithout rejecting and attaching them with the idea of reality.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is changing from the volitional action to action-only, attachment to detachment, misunderstanding to right understanding.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

binocular
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by binocular » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:54 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
barcsimalsi wrote:A compilation of the not self strategy translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Hope it helps.
Thanks. I found this observation interesting:
"Although the concept "not-self" is a useful way of disentangling oneself from the attachments & clingings which lead to suffering, the view that there is no self is simply one of many metaphysical or ontological views which bind one to suffering."
You could also listen to some of Thanissaro Bhikkhu's short Dhamma talks here, searching them by keywords. He has a very pragmatic approach to things.

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Soe Win Htut
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Soe Win Htut » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:10 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
barcsimalsi wrote:A compilation of the not self strategy translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Hope it helps.
Thanks. I found this observation interesting:
"Although the concept "not-self" is a useful way of disentangling oneself from the attachments & clingings which lead to suffering, the view that there is no self is simply one of many metaphysical or ontological views which bind one to suffering."
Dear Sir,

Below link is the insight guided teaching based on Anatta - selfless nature: by Sayadaw U Ottamasara who is one of the well-known insight meditation masters in Burma nowadays. His teaching is mainly based on his direct own experiences. I hope you it can be very helpful for your wish of dragmatic & practical approach for contemplation of Anatta.

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/6sz518t ... Ottamasara


Any good deed, practice, view or any path including noble eightfold path is just to be done-only, used-only without grasping.
__By Sayadaw Ottamasara
Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known onlyWithout rejecting and attaching them with the idea of reality.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is changing from the volitional action to action-only, attachment to detachment, misunderstanding to right understanding.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pacceka1996
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Post by Pacceka1996 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:40 am

hahaha.. maybe finding one's 'self' is what part of this is all about isn't it? Losing the ego, which is perceived as self, that hollow empty shell all want and desire. But self.. ohh.. that's way way way down deep inside. Maybe, cling to nothing, and what's left.. self.

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