vipassana craziness

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3368
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by Mr Man » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:06 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: the Goenka practice is certainly inline with what the Buddha taught.
It is presented within the context of what the Buddha taught but the "technique" and format? The Goenka practice is not main stream Theravada.
And what exactly is mainstream Theravada? Who is a good represntative it?
Well no doubt there will be some variation in opinion here but to me it would have a strong conection to monasticism.

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by Ben » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:10 am

Mr Man wrote:The Goenka practice is not main stream Theravada.
Says who?

In Myanmar it is considered garden-variety Theravada. Identical to U Ba Khin's presentation and teaching, and very close to Mingun Sayadaw's teaching.
And there are very many teachers offering intensive residential courses of meditation, some of whom, make a 10-day course under the guidance of SN Goenka pale in austerity in comparison.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:13 am

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:And what exactly is mainstream Theravada? Who is a good represntative it?
Well no doubt there will be some variation in opinion here but to me it would have a strong conection to monasticism.
Because Geonka is not a monastic, it is not in line with Theravada, not in line with the Buddha's teachings?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8504
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by cooran » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:16 am

I've done many 10+ day Retreats from different traditions, including Goenka, Mahasi, Loving-Kindness, Dzogchen, Mahayana .... all are difficult if one practices diligently.
All are rewarding if one 'stays the distance' and has daily contact with the Buddhist Teacher.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by DAWN » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:20 am

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:I am agree with Buddha Soap,

Peoples have to be informed about particularities of Goenka (semi-marathon) method. And after, they can take their own choice.
There is no surprise with these retreats. The schedules are made known before participating in them, and there is plenty of information on the Web, so there is no excuse not to be informed. Also, this is not a marathon method, semi or otherwise.
I have no doubt ! :anjali:
And actually, i think that peoples goes to Goenka because of his method. So peoples are serching for it. So there is no problem.

But i have conviction that little bit by little bit is better.
Why?
Because in studying, any lecon without pause is lost lecon. There is to be a harmony between lecon and pause. And more short is this cycle, more there is lecons, more there is pauses, and so more deeper is comprehention.
Lecon is the life, and pause is the calm of meditation.
Like a microscope, or map, you have to find your own scale of studying. When there is one cycle of lecon/pause, biiiiig lecon (a year without practice), and biiiiig pause (retreat), so the scale will be very big too, and you will be able to see in general, but it will be impossible to go closer, to reduce the scale for more deeper understanding.

After, there is a scale when the lecon and pause goes together - insight arise.

It's my opinion.
:alien:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3368
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by Mr Man » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:22 am

tiltbillings wrote:Because Geonka is not a monastic, it is not in line with Theravada, not in line with the Buddha's teachings?
The link is through context. The format and technique do not come from the suttas.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:23 am

DAWN wrote: . . .
You obviously have never done an intensive meditation retreat, so you really do not know of what you speak.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:29 am

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Because Geonka is not a monastic, it is not in line with Theravada, not in line with the Buddha's teachings?
The link is through context. The format and technique do not come from the suttas.
Lest me see here. Ajahn Chah, in dealing with someone who is struggling mightly with sleepiness tell that person to sit on the very edge of an open well when he meditates. Heavens, that did not come from the suttas, so it is not in line with the Buddha's teachings. Naughty Ajahn Chah. What Goenka teaches is the cultivation of sila, concentration and mindfulness.

But tell me, which actual format and which actual technique come from the suttas?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by DAWN » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:30 am

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote: . . .
You obviously have never done an intensive meditation retreat, so you really do not know of you speak.
It's true. I'am sorry. :toilet:

Dear Titlbilling, can you please show me a day schedule of one typic intensive meditation retreat. To have an idea about what it can be. :thinking:

:anjali:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3368
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by Mr Man » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:36 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Because Geonka is not a monastic, it is not in line with Theravada, not in line with the Buddha's teachings?
The link is through context. The format and technique do not come from the suttas.
Lest me see here. Ajahn Chah, indealing with someone who is struggling mightly with sleepiness tell that person to sit on the very edge of an open well when he meditates. Heavens, that did not come from the suttas, so it is not in line with the Buddha's teachings. Naughty Ajahn Chah. What Goenka teaches is the cultivation of sila, concentration and mindfulness.

But tell me, which actual format and which actual technique come from the suttas?
With respect Tilt I think you really need to go back and read over what I actually said. Have I said something that is not correct?

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:38 am

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote: . . .
You obviously have never done an intensive meditation retreat, so you really do not know of you speak.
It's true. I'am sorry. :toilet:

Dear Titlbilling, can you please show me a day schedule of one typic intensive meditation retreat. To have an idea about what it can be. :thinking:

:anjali:
Try Google.

http://www.dharma.org/meditation-retreats/faq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8504
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by cooran » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:48 am

Hello DAWN,

Vipassana Meditation Course – Typical Daily Schedule

4:00 a.m. ————————- Morning wake-up bell
4:30-6:30 a.m. —————- Meditate in Dhamma Hall or in your room
6:30-8:00 a.m. —————- Breakfast break
8:00-9:00 a.m. —————- Group meditation in Dhamma Hall
9:00-11:00 a.m. ————— Meditate in Dhamma Hall or in your room according to teacher’s instruction
11:00 -12 noon —————- Lunch break
12 noon – 1:00 p.m. ——— Rest, private Q&A session with teacher
1:00-2:30 p.m. —————– Meditate in Dhamma Hall or in your room
2:30-3:30 p.m. —————– Group meditation in Dhamma Hall
3:30-5:00 p.m. —————– Meditate in Dhamma Hall or in your room according to teacher’s instruction
5:00-6:00 p.m. —————– Tea break
6:00-7:00 p.m. —————– Group meditation in Dhamma Hall
7:00-8:15 p.m. ——————Teacher’s Discourse in Dhamma Hall
8:15-9:00 p.m. —————— Group meditation in Dhamma Hall
9:00-9:30 p.m. —————– Open Q&A session in Dhamma Hall
10:00 p.m. ———————— Lights out

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by DAWN » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:12 am

Thanks you cooran and titlbillngs :anjali: :bow:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:55 am

Mr Man wrote: With respect Tilt I think you really need to go back and read over what I actually said. Have I said something that is not correct?
If you are saying that Goenka or Mahasi Sayadaw are out of line with the Theravada and the teachings of the Buddha, then yes, you have said something quite incorrect.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
beeblebrox
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: vipassana craziness

Post by beeblebrox » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:08 pm

I apologize if my last post seemed to be off-topic...

I don't think that there should be any concern about doing an intensive training... it's all about cultivating the insight of anicca, dukkha and anatta... and then try to figure out how to apply that insight, in a way which is wholesome.

If a person feels like that he needs an intensive training, then I think that's OK. If the person feels like that he doesn't need it, then I think that's OK also... I just don't think that there's any need to turn it into something that one has to be defensive about, or an argument.

:anjali:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests