Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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cooran
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

Bhikkhu Bodhi on Right View being at the beginning and the end of the Noble Eightfold Path:
‘’ Perplexity sometimes arises over an apparent inconsistency in the arrangement of the path factors and the threefold training. Wisdom — which includes right view and right intention — is the last stage in the threefold training, yet its factors are placed at the beginning of the path rather than at its end, as might be expected according to the canon of strict consistency. The sequence of the path factors, however, is not the result of a careless slip, but is determined by an important logistical consideration, namely, that right view and right intention of a preliminary type are called for at the outset as the spur for entering the threefold training.
Right view provides the perspective for practice, right intention the sense of direction. But the two do not expire in this preparatory role. For when the mind has been refined by the training in moral discipline and concentration, it arrives at a superior right view and right intention, which now form the proper training in the higher wisdom.’’
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... d.html#ch2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

SuperKingAir
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by SuperKingAir »

Hey everyone. I just looked up the sutra that this post reminded me of, so I thought, why not post it?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

It's a lengthy one, but the phrase "But the painful feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain" and "But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain". It seems safe to assume that he meant he didn't attach or avert the feelings, but like another blogger mentioned 'just watched it happen'.

But, if your like me, sometimes I do become attached or have an aversion to feelings, thoughts, etc... like maybe how you wanted to do meditations to manipulate the energy. So, for me the discipline is to undo this habit. I don't really know what vipassana meditation is, but if it means developing the eightfold path, I would say it's exactly what we should do.

By the way Spoke, your experience sounds a lot like shaktipat, and whereas I get the whole 'so what' response to people having a kundalini experience (especially if there's a nasty, self-righteous attachment to it), I say congratulations- enjoy it. Obviously, you deserve it. Cheers.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by tiltbillings »

SuperKingAir wrote:By the way Spoke, your experience sounds a lot like shaktipat, and whereas I get the whole 'so what' response to people having a kundalini experience (especially if there's a nasty, self-righteous attachment to it), I say congratulations- enjoy it. Obviously, you deserve it. Cheers.
Śaktipāta is something conferred upon another. Whatever the experience, open your hands and let it go.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Pondera
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by Pondera »

The reason you're feeling the release of these little hooks might be due to the soma associated with the crown chakra. There's soma released in each chakra whenever a person concentrates on them. The throat chakra, for instance, has a distinct soma. It affects the tendons in the ligaments. You can test this by simply stretching in any kind of way while not putting your thoughts on your vishudda, and then doing the same while putting your thoughts on your vishudda. You'll notice that you're able to stretch farther and more easily with the concentration put on the vishudda. But it isn't so much an energy thing as it is a material thing. It's quite biological to be honest.

I'm sure your experience with chakras has convinced you of their existence. But there's a certain feeling associated with each chakra also. The feelings are in fact what one gets when one releases the soma from the chakra and then concentrates on "bringing to life" the out-pour of the soma. If you already know about this then you can relate to what I mean when I say that the feeling of the soma in the crown chakra is quite different than the feeling one gets when they put concentration to the heart chakra or the brow, for instance. The soma in the crown feels like a creative spice. It's hard to put into words, so no wonder they call it soma.

My point is that the feeling of the crown chakra, that actual soma which is released by meditation on the crown, is going straight to your muscles. So it is relaxing all the tension in those muscles. This might explain the unhooking feeling. I wouldn't personally recommend trying to manipulate the energy of the chakras. I see it as a material thing anyway. The best thing you can do is simply open the chakra, release the soma, let it flow throughout the body, and -if you wish to feel the soma, concentrate on it as it spreads throughout your body. When tension is released, it is simply released. There isn't any need to direct away from the body. But I can't say I've ever tried.

I can relate to your experience as far as being able to definitely concentrate on points inside the body. I know that the crown is a point of release for the relaxation of muscles. I have felt tension releasing from my muscles in connection with the crown. But I can't say I ever felt any kind of pain flowing through me.

I'll mention this. What gets left behind through the crown chakra is your past. You can't personally shoot anything through the crown chakra other than your ability to recollect your past (i.e. your heart-knowledge). "The essence" of a person leaves an imprint on reality 32,000 times per moment. That imprint is metaphysically stamped on some dimension of time -which we usually call the past. So the past is real, but cannot do anything itself accept receive attention from someone in the present.

For every moment that passes in your life an imprint of everything you felt and experienced stays behind like some kind of wake of being in the river of life. Each moment is like a stone that creates a foam....never mind.

It's because of the existence of this wake that a person can have access to any and all memories when certain depths of the heart become known. But you can't direct pain through your crown. You can direct awareness. You can direct your knowledge and awareness through your crown, and in that respect this will have some sort of metaphysical implications on the quasi-real nature of what is left of "you" in the past. In other words, by sending your thoughts higher you can observe your past. And the whole thing becomes very weird and complicated once you return to your birth and watch the process go backwards into the womb, and through the stages of development.

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Pondera
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by Pondera »

The other thing is to never concentrate on a particular spot for too long or with too much force. The reason is particularly that each of these spots contain very little of what there is to be released. If you understand that the sacral chakra enables the bladder to release its contents, then you might understand that the throat chakra enables the thyroid gland to release its contents. And the relief which comes from emptying a full bladder is just a matter of how full that bladder was. The amount of content in the bladder is far greater than the amount of content in the thyroid. So, just as there would be no point on relaxing ones empty bladder, there is no point on trying to empty an empty chakra -like the throat or the crown.

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hoshin
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by hoshin »

I don't understand why we talk about chakra, kundalini, though those experiences have been felt during a Vipassana retreat. I think those should have been understood in the way of vipassana. There is no chakra in vipassana, no kundalini. But moments of heat, movement, vibrations, etc can be experimented. When it is so, it should be noticed AS IT IS, and not gathered in a concept like chakra or kundalini experience...

When we follow a method, we should follow its instructions precisely, and not interpret an experience by using concepts from other methods. Otherwise, it's like climbing a mountain by taking one path, then quickly go down to take another path, then go down again... Doing like this will not lead us to reach the goal...

With metta

Hoshin
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cooran
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by cooran »

Well said! :clap:

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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retrofuturist
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Indeed.

:goodpost:

Satipatthana is the frame of reference... in the context of Goenka-meditation, mindfulness of vedana specifically.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

PeterB
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by PeterB »

hoshin wrote:I don't understand why we talk about chakra, kundalini, though those experiences have been felt during a Vipassana retreat. I think those should have been understood in the way of vipassana. There is no chakra in vipassana, no kundalini. But moments of heat, movement, vibrations, etc can be experimented. When it is so, it should be noticed AS IT IS, and not gathered in a concept like chakra or kundalini experience...

When we follow a method, we should follow its instructions precisely, and not interpret an experience by using concepts from other methods. Otherwise, it's like climbing a mountain by taking one path, then quickly go down to take another path, then go down again... Doing like this will not lead us to reach the goal...

With metta

Hoshin
Sadhu ! Sadhu ! Sadhu !

:anjali:

Pouki
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by Pouki »

Hi Spoke, not sure if you're reading this since it's been 9 years, but hey.

I really enjoyed reading your post. I wonder a lot myself about mixing practices - is it good or bad? They make it clear at Goenka retreats that you shouldn't mix.
Yet I often fantasize about the "perfect little mix" of practices, where you mix in 20% Vipassana, add just a few gallons of Zen and a dash of kundalini, etc.
When you work out, you want to work on all muscles, do a little bit of everything. You want to avoid it becoming "routine" and fruitless.
But you also want to do reps, and be regular…

I like to think it can be a balance, as with everything. Being consistent but not too much.
Maybe giving Kundalini a chance for a little while, without going in too deep. Then back to Vipassana.
Maybe exploring that sensation at the crown of your head, but not too intensely, every once in a while.
Feel it out. If it feels ok and good, then go a little further. But take it slow and stay mindful.
The key is to feel it out. No matter what, you will be carving your own unique path with all this, just like everyone.

I hope you've been well since your post.

Meezer77
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Re: Kundalini experiences on a Goenka retreat

Post by Meezer77 »

I did a bit of Kundalini yoga and shortly afterwards had a nasty psychotic episode followed by a few months of very low mood. There are lots of videos on YouTube on Kundalini Psychosis. I’ve chosen to stay away from it.

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