vipassana question

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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befriend
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vipassana question

Post by befriend » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:53 am

when I practice the mahasi vipassana method of noting whatever sense impression arises moment to moment im not sure how to do this, heres an example. if a motorcycle drives by I note hearing hearing, then while the sound of the motorcycle is still there a bird chirps and the chirping is louder meaning more prominent of an experience, do I stop noticing the motorcycle sound before I hear its passing away and switch to hearing the bird? or do I stick with the motorcycle noise for the duration of its arising persisting and disappearing? thank you.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

SarathW
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Re: vipassana question

Post by SarathW » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:04 am

The objective is to understand the process.
Contact (Rupa) , feeling (Vedana) and the arising (Citta) of desire etc (Dhamma).
It is interesting to note that how your attention is turning towards the desired object.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Goofaholix
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Re: vipassana question

Post by Goofaholix » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:21 am

The process of hearing that you are noting is exactly the same no matter what is being heard, what is being heard is irrelevant.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

befriend
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Re: vipassana question

Post by befriend » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:05 am

what I mean is if im paying attention to an object then another object comes up stronger should I switch my attention to the new object or should I maintain awareness of the object I was initially observing so I can see its complete shelf life, of arising persisting and disappearing. sorry I see how my post wasn't very clear.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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cjmacie
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Re: vipassana question

Post by cjmacie » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:05 pm

"what I mean is if im paying attention to an object then another object comes up stronger should I switch my attention to the new object or should I maintain awareness of the object I was initially observing so I can see its complete shelf life, of arising persisting and disappearing. sorry I see how my post wasn't very clear."

Another object takes attention -- there you are; the previous is gone!

If holding to a single object, that's samadhi practice.

If bird chirp takes notice from motorcycle sound, and then back to motorcycle sound, that's actually new object-moment, though mentally fabricated as in "continuity" with the previous motorcycle sounds.

Sounds like noting "doubting which object to direct to" might also occur.

Mahasi "noting" is simplified for beginners as just putting labels on what's noticed moment by moment. The more mature practice, that comes with time, has more to do with "knowing" more fully what it is, the appearance, it's coming, going, details, without falling off into reaction to it.

English "note" relates back to Greek "gnosis" -- direct, full experiential knowing. Looking closely at Mahasi's instructions, it's clear this is what the practice aims for.

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Goofaholix
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Re: vipassana question

Post by Goofaholix » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:43 pm

befriend wrote:what I mean is if im paying attention to an object then another object comes up stronger should I switch my attention to the new object or should I maintain awareness of the object I was initially observing so I can see its complete shelf life, of arising persisting and disappearing. sorry I see how my post wasn't very clear.
It really doesn't matter which sound you are noting, note either or both whichever grabs your attention or seems natural to you, what matters the object should be observing the process of change, and in this case the process of hearing.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

SarathW
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Re: vipassana question

Post by SarathW » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:54 pm

Keeping attention on one object is Samatha practice not Vipassana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

befriend
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Re: vipassana question

Post by befriend » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:18 pm

thank you all for the replies. :anjali:
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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cjmacie
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Re: vipassana question

Post by cjmacie » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:14 am

Postby cjmacie » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:05 am
"If holding to a single object, that's samadhi practice."

Postby SarathW » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:54 pm
"Keeping attention on one object is Samatha practice not Vipassana."

That said, the separation between concentration (samadhi) and insight (vipassana) practices isn't quite as absolute as presented in some forum discussions (or some IM/VM type teachings).

Practicing only jhana clearly doesn't itself lead to awakening, but the sutta-s as well as competent contemporary teachers don’t claim that. Most would probably agree with Ayya Khema – that jhana is a necessary but not sufficient cause for awakening. The two practices are inextricably intertwined on the path.

For all the hype that the Mahasi system is pure "dry" vipassana practice, Mahasi Sayadaw's own teachings clearly point-out that the jhana- and vipassana-approaches are equivalent in effectiveness, and that the vipassana-approach necessarily incorporates intense concentration (his term is vipassana-khanika-samadhi), which is functionally equivalent to what he calls "Jhāna-samādhi" or "Appanāsamādhi". The difference lies in the temperamental leaning (and/or the practice method learned) of the practitioner, as either a "Samathayānika individual" or a "Suddhavipassanayānika individual". Neither is inherently better or worse, nor preferentially emphasized in the Buddha's teachings.

cf. pp. 103-104, and pp. 119-121 in Chapter II "CITTA VISUDDHI" / "Purification of the mind", in:
http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sa ... part_i.pdf

practitioner
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Re: vipassana question

Post by practitioner » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:10 pm

There is room for you to experiment to see what works for you. The over arching principle is to note the arising and disappearing of an object. Stick with your original object until it disappear, then note the next object. If none, note your tummy or breathing, whichever is your preference.

The first insight is to realize that all phenomenon arise and disappear without self essence. Seeing your being is simply mental and material phenomenon such that you realize anatta is the first knowledge of insight.

Dont worry too much about the stacked object. First insight is noting how your life is simply mental and material process without a self in it.

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pilgrim
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Re: vipassana question

Post by pilgrim » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:20 am

befriend wrote:what I mean is if im paying attention to an object then another object comes up stronger should I switch my attention to the new object or should I maintain awareness of the object I was initially observing so I can see its complete shelf life, of arising persisting and disappearing. sorry I see how my post wasn't very clear.
Whether its the wind, the birds or a passing motorbike, it is still hearing. That's what you need to be aware or - the process of hearing. It is your own perception ( sanna ) that differentiates the sound according to its origin. With strong and continous sati, you will just be aware of "hearing" without perception butting into your consciousness and making judgements on what sounds are being heard.

Subsequently, if your attention is attracted to another sensory object, like a body sensation, then you become aware of touching or pain, etc..

fasakhi
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Re: vipassana question

Post by fasakhi » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:10 am

thank you all for the replies.

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