Did anyone here attain jhana?

[Ben]

I think as long as we avoid creating conceited 'teacher' roles for ourselves and just help people out with kindness, to the best of the abilities that we posses, then there is nothing wrong in that. It is easy to become attached to being a 'teacher' or 'attained' to this stage or other - leave all that behind - they are just more self-views (sakkaya ditti) caused by not properly recognising the five aggregates within.

There needs to be an internal evaluation of one's desires for teaching: Is it because you want to be respected by others, or because you want to help them selflessly? Though I'd imagine if one is particularly deluded, they'd just convince themselves that they're being selfless..

My experience has been that people who lead classes or groups are constantly questioning their own motivation and ability, and rightly so.

Spiny

That may be true of some people, more so in the real world, but you do not need to go far to find people on the internet who neither deserve the title nor the attention of their students.

[Spiny O'Norman]

My experience has been that people who lead classes or groups are constantly questioning their own motivation and ability, and rightly so.

Spiny

That may be true of some people, more so in the real world, but you do not need to go far to find people on the internet who neither deserve the title nor the attention of their students.

I haven't come across anyone like that on this forum.

Spiny

[Spiny O'Norman]

...Nyingma Dzogchen are each a unique version of mindfulness meditation.

I used to do Dzogchen shamata, which involved nominally 25% attention on the breath, the rest being "spacious" awareness. I've found some parallels with the 4 tetrads of the Anapanasati Sutta.

Spiny

[befriend]

how does one manage the pride one gets from jhana. wasnt pride from jhana mastery what caused devadatta to fall? he became proud of his super powers and became jealous of buddha.

[tiltbillings]

how does one manage the pride one gets from jhana. wasnt pride from jhana mastery what caused devadatta to fall? he became proud of his super powers and became jealous of buddha.

Maybe reading through this short thread might help:

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 48#p141526" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chownah]

how does one manage the pride one gets from jhana. wasnt pride from jhana mastery what caused devadatta to fall? he became proud of his super powers and became jealous of buddha.

Wanting to control pride might give you an edge on understanding not-self. Here's how.....if this pride is part of you then you should be able to control it after all it is YOU and if you can not control yourself then maybe you really aren't you.....or if pride arises from YOU then you should be able to just stop arising it and if you can't stop it from arising then how can you think that it has arisen from you....
Watch carefully as pride arises....to do this get into a solid state of concentration and then direct it to being mindful of thoughts....then think about how good you are at jhana and watch as your pride arises......I guess....maybe its a bad idea to try this....maybe it will be painful and a bad expereince...but it won't cost anything.....
chownah

[befriend]

i remember my teacher already answered this years ago for me, she said watch the pride, when the mind sees how much suffering there is in it, this will help alleviate the pride. thanks for reminding me, metta.

[manas]

The more I desire meditative bliss, the more it eludes me. The more I practice 'not expecting any result' - just doing the work - the more bliss I get to taste.

This drives me nuts sometimes, but I'm slowly getting the message.



PS: I'm not talking about jhana here, just the ordinary bliss we find in a calmed mind.

[kirk5a]

PS: I'm not talking about jhana here, just the ordinary bliss we find in a calmed mind.

Maybe that's what jhana is? But opinions vary on that apparently.

[manas]

PS: I'm not talking about jhana here, just the ordinary bliss we find in a calmed mind.

Maybe that's what jhana is? But opinions vary on that apparently.

The thing is, kirk5a, the less I worry about 'when' I'm going to attain it (a calmed mind), the calmer my mind gets. That's the 'catch-22' that I find so amusing in a mildly masochistic way. I can only get it, if I don't hanker after it...lol! Anyway, I like being in the lower ranks of samatha practitioners...got no jhana, just a bit of peace and love from time to time (when I get lucky)...I like it this way as I have nothing to live up to.

[Ben]

Hi manasikara

Its a tricky balance, isn't it? If one craves this or that attainment it becomes a barrier to its achievement. And subtle craving can masquerade as equanimity. At the end of the day if we just maintain continuous attention of the object (for samatha) then that's all we need do.
kind regards.

Ben

[PeterB]

Well said Ben.

[daverupa]

At the end of the day if we just maintain continuous attention of the object (for samatha) then that's all we need do.

Yet I wonder if Right Effort is a call for a more proactive practice. Neither merely seeking attainments nor merely persisting in a method, but rather actively pursuing the performance of wholesome behaviors (of thought, word, and deed).

The (Zen) maxim to "just sit" feels like a misstep; to me, this is where the common idea of samatha and vipassana as differing practices goes awry. Proper practice is both and roughly at the same time, the way left-hand-right-hand climbs a ladder.

[rowyourboat]

At the end of the day if we just maintain continuous attention of the object (for samatha) then that's all we need do.

Yet I wonder if Right Effort is a call for a more proactive practice. Neither merely seeking attainments nor merely persisting in a method, but rather actively pursuing the performance of wholesome behaviors (of thought, word, and deed).

The (Zen) maxim to "just sit" feels like a misstep; to me, this is where the common idea of samatha and vipassana as differing practices goes awry. Proper practice is both and roughly at the same time, the way left-hand-right-hand climbs a ladder.

The Samadhi components in the N8FP are right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration- 3 practices. It is more complex than seen at first take. We often forget the development of wholesome qualities and go after the more exotic/exciting meditative attainments. I wish more people were enthused about having say more empathy, as they are about attaining jhana. Yet it can be simple as well- like Ben said (see one of the Samadhi sutta where samadhi is described merely as unifying the mind).

with metta

Matheesha

[manas]

Hi manasikara

Its a tricky balance, isn't it? If one craves this or that attainment it becomes a barrier to its achievement. And subtle craving can masquerade as equanimity. At the end of the day if we just maintain continuous attention of the object (for samatha) then that's all we need do.
kind regards.

Ben

As always, thanks Ben for your timely and accurate advice. Yes, I need to watch that...I might rephrase it as 'wanting to take it a little too easy, masquerading as equanimity', but the principle of being subtly deceived is the same. Argh, why is it so hard to find the balance, between trying too hard, and not trying hard enough?

Anyway...peace