Direct knowledge in meditation?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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confusedlayman
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am

Direct knowledge in meditation?

Post by confusedlayman » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:31 pm

Has anyone in this forum personally accessed direct knowledge resulting from Samatha meditation? if so how was the procedure and experience and guidelines? I think seeing hell directly will cause more dispassion and take us towards final goal faster than imagining hell but not sure if such a kind of suffering is possible?
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: Direct knowledge in meditation?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:09 pm

confusedlayman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:31 pm
Has anyone in this forum personally accessed direct knowledge resulting from Samatha meditation?
...
Not first hand account, of course.
  • But, recently read several first hand accounts of those who accessed "hell" with direct knowledge resulting from Samatha meditation [before practising vipassana].


confusedlayman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:31 pm
...
I think seeing hell directly will cause more dispassion and take us towards final goal faster than imagining hell but not sure if such a kind of suffering is possible?
They said so.
  • They got a boost in faith/saddha from that experience.


confusedlayman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:31 pm
...
if so how was the procedure and experience and guidelines?
...
I don't personally like that approach. I'm not in the mood to mention the source. So, let me just outline like this:
  • Procedure:
    • Practice anapana upto controlling nimitta very skifully. First, see good things, like pagodas, "heavens" etc. Then, if one wants to, see the "bad" things like "hell".
  • Guidelines:
    • Don't see bad things first.
  • Experience:
    • Not bad, I mean good, in strengthening their saddha, if follow the procedure; bad, if not stick to teachers' guidance.




My impression of "their seeing of hell":
  • Not of much importance rather than a personal booster of faith before switching from samatha to vipassana.




My self-talk:
  • Why see hell [or heavens] when there are many better ways to strengthen one's saddha?



.
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

confusedlayman
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am

Re: Direct knowledge in meditation?

Post by confusedlayman » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:36 pm

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:09 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:31 pm
Has anyone in this forum personally accessed direct knowledge resulting from Samatha meditation?
...
Not first hand account, of course.
  • But, recently read several first hand accounts of those who accessed "hell" with direct knowledge resulting from Samatha meditation [before practising vipassana].


confusedlayman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:31 pm
...
I think seeing hell directly will cause more dispassion and take us towards final goal faster than imagining hell but not sure if such a kind of suffering is possible?
They said so.
  • They got a boost in faith/saddha from that experience.


confusedlayman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:31 pm
...
if so how was the procedure and experience and guidelines?
...
I don't personally like that approach. I'm not in the mood to mention the source. So, let me just outline like this:
  • Procedure:
    • Practice anapana upto controlling nimitta very skifully. First, see good things, like pagodas, "heavens" etc. Then, if one wants to, see the "bad" things like "hell".
  • Guidelines:
    • Don't see bad things first.
  • Experience:
    • Not bad, I mean good, in strengthening their saddha, if follow the procedure; bad, if not stick to teachers' guidance.




My impression of "their seeing of hell":
  • Not of much importance rather than a personal booster of faith before switching from samatha to vipassana.




My self-talk:
  • Why see hell [or heavens] when there are many better ways to strengthen one's saddha?



.
I cant tolerate immediate suffering in this life thats why i took buddhism path. But in here, i get good feelings too so i become complacent and my practise is not so deep. Any help?
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: Direct knowledge in meditation?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:42 pm

Congrats! and glad to know you get good feelings here on DWT.

I'm pretty sure you'll get some excellent advice and suggestions on DW from various persons and personnel with differing experiences and expertise in a variety of methods/approaches. Some of them may be quite useful for you.

That being said, you can always change your approach to Dhamma later, if necessary, to suit your personality or temperament. On the other hand, imo, practicing Dhamma in any acceptable form surely strengthens positive aspects of one's personality.

:heart:
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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Aloka
Posts: 6205
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Direct knowledge in meditation?

Post by Aloka » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:07 pm

confusedlayman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:31 pm
I think seeing hell directly will cause more dispassion and take us towards final goal faster than imagining hell but not sure if such a kind of suffering is possible?
This is a quote from "True Freedom" by Ajahn Jagaro:
Every religion talks about heavens and hells, but as far as the human experience and the Buddhist perspective are concerned, heaven and hell are not far away. In a single moment you can go up to heaven and then drop down to hell. It happens many times every day. The different realms of existence are the various states of mind that we experience throughout the day - the moments of bliss and happiness are symbolised by heaven; the moments of despair and darkness symbolised by hell.

https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha269.htm
:anjali:

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