Jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Why some do not attain Nibbana in this very life?
 asks Ananda, Sariputta's response;
"Here friend Ananda, some do not understand as it really is: 'These perceptions pertain to deterioration, these to stabilization, these to distinction, these pertain to penetration'. This is why some here do not attain Nibbana in this very life"
"Why is it, friend Sariputta, that some beings attain Nibbana in this very life?"
 Reply:
"Some beings understand as it really is: 'These perceptions pertain to deterioration, these to stabilization, these to distinction, these pertain to penetration'. This is why some attain Nibbana in this very life"
based on AN 4.179. BB's Footnotes discuss in detail how these principles are applied when practising 4 jhanas wrongly/rightly. Wrong application does not lead to Nibbana.
Nibbana names the transcendent and singularly ineffable freedom that stands as the final goal of all the Buddha's teachings
  • The enlightened, constantly absorbed in jhana,
    persevering,
    firm in their effort:
    they touch Unbinding, the unexcelled safety from bondage.
DHP 23
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Sometimes at the end of a comment on Samma Samadhi one is asked
What is the Method?
a method for Samadhi. What other method than the noble method? Samma samadhi.
The noble method is not found in a quick understanding, not a band aid, placed upon a despondent mood, not a day dreamed kasina, or falsely imagined jhana, or falsely imagined Anapanasati, mere calming of breath for an hour, settling breath on a nose-tip will not fix long-term samsaric angst. Method? The noble method is to clearly see, and thoroughly penetrate, alongside wisdom. Method is found in the way, the noble disciple reflects thus: AN 10.92 condensed excerpt. P1462 BB
"When this exists, that comes to be; with the arising of this, that arises....with consciousness as condition, name and form. with name and form as condition. the six sense bases, with six sense bases as condition contact,
(this is where folks trip, they think that contact and  consciousness are two separate things) consciousness is constantly regenerated due to renewal of contacts, hence incessant
becomings.
This is the becoming that we should be worried about, not of being reborn after aging and dying of this physical life, of 70-100 years. What are we doing every moment?
the Method is to train the mind every moment, not to react to incoming data from the sensory world.
incoming data if reacted to, creates innumerable becomings each day adding to our suffering.
Nama-rupa gives rise to consciousness, and latter regenerates the former, a vicious cycle
When we understand this, then we will know what the method is.
Method is the ability to reverse dependent origination through Samma samadhi
To succeed at Samma samadhi one has to practice Samma sati, without trapping consciousness in objects. 
When you use an object for meditation, you always remain the subject. Stationed within notion of self, how can one dismantle consciousness? Now if anyone can show me how they can reverse DO using Arupa Samapatthis, and sannavedayithanirodha, that would be something worth a Lion's roar.
Take care, with love :candle:
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Theravada vs Early Buddhism: an interesting tidbit, from the mouth of Buddhaghaosa himself. Excerpt
A note has to be made here that even the Theravada commentators were conscious of the fact that their commentaries did not constitute early Buddhism. For instance Buddhaghosa, the theoretician of Theravada, in his commentary to Vinaya, claimed that there are four strata in authority; namely, Sutta, Suttanuloma, Acariyavada and Attanomati. He explained attanomati as commentarial decisions arrived by intellectual exercise by individual masters and includes them in Theravada. He adds that they are of lesser grade in importance.
link: https://www.dhammaforeveryone.com/is-th ... avada.html

As much as the commentaries are invaluable to the beginner, one must remember that while they facilitate our entry to the early suttas, once we come to understand the early suttas, that too need to be discarded, or else a discussion on a subject such as Samma Samadhi can go on as long as Samsara exists.
In all the aspects of 8-fold path theory combines practice. When it comes to awakening, can one separate Early Buddhist Texts from practice?
And the practice might get a bit muddled if you combine messages read in the suttas with commentarial communications esp when it comes to Samma sati, and Samma samadhi
With love :candle:
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Within a discussion of the Samma sati and Samma samadhi the question of Arahant, invariably crops up. It is hard to get across to the person who has not practised Right Samadhi, that It is only via the latter, Right knowledge and Right deliverance ensues MN 117. 
That being so, the sutta pitaka says plenty times, that
  • Arahant has gone beyond the sense bases
in simple words it means "he walks among us but s/he is not here, the way we think s/he is here with our limited minds" Folks insist that the Arahant still has the aggregates. If the aggregates were there, there would be a worldly 'self' generated, but the Arahant is not deluded, he is free of the pathology that afflicts us. We have a hard time, in admitting to our ourselves, that we are so afflicted. 
A most striking statement in sutta pitaka, regarding the status of the Arahant.
Condensed Excerpt MN 36
"I recall teaching the Dhamma to an assembly of many hundreds,
and even then each person thinks of me: 'The recluse Gotama is teaching the Dhamma especially for me'
But it should not be so regarded; The Tathagata teaches the Dhamma to others
only to give knowledge.
When the talk is finished, then i return to where i constantly abide,
the fruition attainment of emptiness; void'"
Is this how the concept of Nirmanakaya originated in Mahayana???? did they run too far with that??
Second verse in the Buddha Vagga writes 
Yassa jalini visattika tanha natti kuhinci netave Tam buddham ananatagocaram apadam kena padena nessatha.
DHP 180.
Summarized it means
  • Arahant is trackless
but that is too simple for our complicated minds loaded with mental proliferations. Without a regenerating consciousness
"Can s/he see? can s/he hear?"
folks ask. How do you explain vision to a blind person? Perhaps this explains the reluctance of Buddha at the beginning, until the legendary Brahmasahampati intervened.
A fabulous 4th of July weekend to all. :candle:
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Monks, without applying effort to the meditative development, a wish may arise
"Oh that my mind might be free from the taints by non-clinging"
yet it will not be freed, for what reason?
"Because he has not developed his mind"
it is to be said. Not developed in what?
In the Four Frames of Reference, the Four right kinds of Striving, the Four bases of Success, the Five spiritual Faculties, the Five spiritual Powers and the Seven Factors of Enlightenment, and the Noble eightfold path
How can one develop the mind?
not without Samma Sati and Samma Samadhi
In a way there is a truth in the saying that Four References offer a One way path, Ekayana, but to fashion that path economically and soundly, one has to fulfill all the 37 factors of enlightenment. One who tries to cut corners by saying "O I can do this without all the pesky 37 factors of enlightenment", fails to see that the
Noble Truth of the Magga is in the details
Don't cut the corners.
  • 'Cut corners' mean to skip certain steps in order to do something as easily or cheaply as possible, usually to the detriment of the finished product, or end result.
This finished product is a serious affair, if you are planning to cut off a zillion lifetimes of suffering from the future. An Arahant who walked this path meticulously, has eaten up what might have been his future lifetimes.
See the value of not cutting corners, that saving grace!
With love  🦆🦅 fly with no tracks in the sky
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Recalling this beautiful verse, which almost everybody at DW is familiar with?  sutta number?
"This is a heap of sheer constructions; Here no being is found.
Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word 'chariot' is used,
So, when the aggregates are present,
There's the convention 'a being.'"
Now a rhetorical question, what happens when the constructing stops? will the Arahant continue being? still trapped within being? did liberation serve a useful purpose? all for naught.
The one who has gone beyond all construction? is h/she still here? 
even though gods and men continue to see DN 1 ???
What do they see?
If the teaching in the 'tale of the chariot' is true, when Arahant stops 'being' can the term aggregates still apply? 
  • Arahant is not caught in the dilemma of being or non-being.
If so can the opinion that Arahant has the aggregates be true? When the aggregates exist, they construct a being. The assembly of aggregates,
  • its relevance is in construction of a being. How do the aggregates assemble?
What drives the process?
Where is the underlying energy for the assembly, for this coming together, this becoming? this bhava? Ans: Craving dependent on ignorance.
But Arahant has done away with craving and ignorance. If so, are we not the ones who crave for the Arahant, to have aggregates?
You can't think yourself out of the human conundrum of being trapped within aggregates, yet an unspoken wisdom guides one, that is emergent in the carefully choreographed jhanic moment, of the perfected Samma Samadhi.
With love 🍃🍃
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Pulsar wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:03 pm "This is a heap of sheer constructions; Here no being is found.
Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word 'chariot' is used,
So, when the aggregates are present,
There's the convention 'a being.'"
Ladder is a being. But you don't find ladder in the two parallel sticks and many rows of parallel sticks in between these two sticks - so when these aggregates are present then the convention of ladder is used.
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Homage to the Dhamma!
Well taught is the teaching of the Blessed One,
of immediate advantage,
timeless inviting one to experience it.
Like this is Samma samadhi, or Samma Sati, an invitation, each individual is invited to "come and see" But how can one see if an object sits in between the eye and that inquiry, all they see is the object, consciousness occupying an object?
Samma sati and samma Samadhi is about getting rid of consciousness. Arahant has dismantled consciousness. Arahant undoes the process of aggregation, hence Arahant has no aggregates. Now it is true that Arahant is sentient, may contact, feel, apperceive but it does not go beyond that. He has gone beyond the aggregation, hence s/he is free, is not fenced in by the aggregates.
Dhamma leads one onward, it is to be known individually by the wise.
Homage to the Dhamma!
With love 🍃🍃
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

What is consciousness? It confuses some, we can clear some of the confusion
by relying on info given in Dependent Origination, according to Buddha's teaching, not according to Hinduism, a broad term enclosing anything Indianish, but not taught by Buddha.
Now it is true that a lot of words have been fed into the mouth of Buddha, the upanishadic influences in the canon?, in spite of it, the percipient can discern the unfed words, faithful to the doctrine. It is also true that the way DO is presented in the canon, creates confusion in the reader who is genuinely trying to understand it, but this is a long story.
For now, let me use an example from the canon MN 9 sammaditthi Sutta, an excerpt: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tbb.html58.
"And what is consciousness, what is the origin of consciousness,
what is the cessation of consciousness,
what is the way leading to the cessation of consciousness?

There are these six classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, mind-consciousness.
Then the sutta reads
With the arising of formations there is the arising of consciousness. With the cessation of formations there is the cessation of consciousness.
The way leading to the cessation of consciousness is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.59. "When a noble disciple has thus understood consciousness, the origin of consciousness, the cessation of consciousness, and the way leading to the cessation of consciousness... he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma"
The second passage talks about consciousness, its origin, its cesssation (in the Arahant this consciouness is ceased), so i say sometimes "in the Arahant there is no consciousness" and it offends good people, but i do not say that in the Arahant th six classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, mind-consciousness have ceased.
In the Arahant these arise without identification (the arahant does not think this eye-consciousness is mine), so the arahant sees and hears, no worries. Bahia would get it, i mean he got it.
In the Arahant, the 6 operating cognitions, do not give rise to samkhara (formations) or constructions or papanca.
When constructions, or formations or papanca is missing, the consciousness that is referred to in the second passage of Samma Samadhi sutta does not arise.
This is the missing consciousness in the Arahant, not the awareness of sights and sounds etc., and so called cognition connected with those.
The missing consciousness in the Arahant is the one that routinely gives rise to Nama-rupa.....rupa can mean the body, or body of mental constructions, or body of papanca, supported by the material world.
Nama means Feeling, ideation, volition, contact and attention.
Just think about it, without immediately rejecting it.
This should explain the difference between Sanna and Vinnana, a question asked on another thread. Approach this comment with an open mind, leaving all biases aside. If you are familiar  with Right Sati and Samadhi as in MN 117, this should be a no brainer, since Samma sati and Samma samadhi is all about deconstructing the consciousness that gives rise to Nama-rupa.
If anyone else can explain the difference between Sanna and Vinnana, any other way, I would love to hear it. Take care! 🍃🍃
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Road to Rajagaha. Once upon a time our beloved Buddha was asked, why can't everyone get to Nibbana, after all everyone hears the same doctrine, here is the response.
Right hearing? right view, precedes Samma samadhi...my take.
Excerpt from https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .horn.html
"What is the cause, good Gotama, what the reason that; since nibbana does exist, since the way leading to nibbana exists, since the good Gotama exists as adviser, some of the good Gotama's disciples on being exhorted thus and instructed thus by the good Gotama, attain the unchanging goal — nibbana, but some do not attain it?
"Well then, brahman, I will question you on this point in reply. As it is pleasing to you, so you may answer me. What do you think about this, brahman? Are you skilled in the way leading to Rajagaha?
Yes, sir, skilled am I in the way leading to Rajagaha.
What do you think about this? A man might come along here wanting to go to Rajagaha. Having approached you, he might speak thus: 'I want to go to Rajagaha, sir; show me the way to this Rajagaha.' You might speak thus to him:
"Yes, my good man, this road goes to Rajagaha; go along it for a while.
When you have gone along it for a while you will see a village;
go along for a while; when you have gone along for a while you will see a market town;
go for a while. When you have gone along for a while you will see Rajagaha with its delightful parks, delightful forests, delightful fields, delightful ponds.

But although he has been exhorted and instructed thus by you, he might take the wrong road and go westwards. Then a second man might come along wanting to go to Rajagaha...(as above)... you will see Rajagaha with its delightful... ponds.'
Exhorted and instructed thus by you he might get to Rajagaha safely.
What is the cause, brahman, what the reason that, since Rajagaha does exist, since the way leading to Rajagaha exists, since you exist as adviser, the one man, although being exhorted and instructed thus by you, may take the wrong road and go westwards while the other may get to Rajagaha safely?"
get my drift? the teaching is right there, in the canon, regarding Samma samadhi, how to get to Rajagaha, (nibbana) but it is beclouded in the very canon by entries of Abhidhammikas with clouded vision who composed other suttas, so not every sutta had the right directions to Rajagaha like this one.
Buddha did not write the suttas. Commentators went so far as to say Sannavedayitanirodha (another immobilization) is limited to Arahant or stage right before.
Just like today, then too, some buddhists were confused by the teachings handed down, Jains naturally had a huge influence on them, plus other non-budddhist sects. Even today some buddhists think Immobilisation was taught by Buddha.
In Ganaka Moggallana it is very clear, as to how to get to Rajagaha, since the author of the sutta seems to belong to the uninfluenced variety of sutta composers.
It gives a most accurate description of the four buddhist jhanas.
With love 🍃🍃
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Tale of Two cities Consider MN 19 Buddha speaks of two kinds of thoughts.
  • Ones of renunciation, of kindness and of non-cruelty vs ones of sensual desire, of ill-will, or cruelty.
A crispy clear outline of how the Bodhisattva prepared for jhana is found in MN 19, Here pre-jhana is presented, using  two metaphors, related to farming. Buddha remained close to the farmers and pastures where the cows grazed, suttas reflect this. If there are gods in the suttas of jhana, they were introduced on a later day, by those that could not handle the right jhana, gods distract and
falsely redeem us.
When to be proactive?
Just as in the last month of the rainy season, in the autumn, when the crops thicken, a cowherd would guard his cows (cows are the wily thoughts) by constantly tapping and poking them on this side and that, with a stick to check and curb them, Why is that? because he sees that he could be flogged, imprisoned, fined, or blamed if he let them stray into the crops,
(crops is a reference to when desires, angers, cruelties rage) 
so too i saw in unwholesome states danger, degradation, and defilement, and in wholesome states the blessing of renunciation, the aspect of cleansing.
Renunciation means? doing away with wily thoughts, cows are the thoughts of the aspirant. Renunciate has nothing to be afraid  of.Sutta writes,
"But with excessive thinking and pondering one might tire his body, when the body is tired, the mind becomes strained, and when it is strained, it is far from concentration"
the solution?
"Steady the mind internally, quiet it, bring it to singleness and concentrate it. Why is that? So that the mind is not strained""As I abided resolutely, only things that arose in the mind were non-ill will and non-cruelty, and i thought, these thoughts do not afflict anyone, aids wisdom, lead to Nibbana"
Buddha claims.
  • That is how pre-Buddha transformed negative thoughts.
 
Other scenario from the metaphor of the cowherd:
"just as in the last month of the hot season, when all the crops Have been brought inside the villages, a cowherd would guard his cows, while staying at the root of a tree or out in the open, since he needs only to be mindful that cows are there; so too, there was need for me only to be mindful that those states of mind were there"
Reference here is to the relaxed meditator, thoughts no more exposed to sensory stimuli. (Crops have been contained indoors, cows don't have access to them)
  • Meditator relaxes under a tree, not having to battle wily thoughts. 
At this point of the tale
"Tireless energy was aroused in me and unremitting mindfulness was established, my body was tranquil and untroubled, my mind concentrated and unified
  • Jhanic entry is guaranteed now.
  • MN 19 and MN 4 describe the subsequent Four Buddhist Jhanas with great clarity.
There is no reference to Arupas at all. Sandha sutta repeats that only the naive meditator resorts to Arupa meditation, a practice prevalent among  non-buddhist practitioners.
Buddha to be, had come a long way. He had practiced Arupas under some Indian ascetics, only to find that Arupas do not lead to deliverance from suffering. MN 38.
  • Thus he rejected Arupas
Yet 25000 years after the incident some Buddhists are stuck on Arupas, which reflects the craftiness  of the Upanisad oriented buddhist sutta makers, that forced their beliefs through the back door. They made sure it stuck by creating two more suttas MN 43 and MN 44, that made clever allusions to Arupas. Nothing better than mixing up truth with non-truth in order to hoodwink the harmless buddhist, Wily Hindus covered all their bases. Only the buddhist with little dust could see. Others got carried away by lies.
Amen! :candle:
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Fettered, who is unfettered? a simile shows us how relentlessly we must try to get unfettered. Practising the way to Nibbana, aka as relinquishing the acquisitions, or striving to give up interactive appropriation of aggregates.
  • This sutta divides the effort into 4 categories
In the first category,
while efforting, memories and thoughts linked with life beset him, he does not expel them, a laissez-faire attitude, he tolerates them, thoughts bind him. This category of persons is fettered.
I would say they do not practice mindfulness at all, even though they want to practice.
Second category:
Memories and intentions beset him. Dividing road is, does he tolerate them? and does he let these thoughts run circles around him/her and gather momentum, (trapping him in a vortex) or does he make the effort to expel these thoughts?
If he does, that means he engages in Samma Sati and Samma Samadhi, to some degree, and expel them. Yet he too is Fettered, even though he is diligently practising. 
The above two can be compared to two animals, both are tied down, one is just fine with it, eats drinks and is happy, even though he knows his predicament, the second one tries to free himself with his claws.

The third Category: While efforting, he is mostly fine, is well established in his mindfulness. But now and then his mindfulness slips, he is beset by a nostalgia, a memory of worldly love, or some other disruption. Yet he is quickly able to dispel it, because he has achieved a high degree of mastery in Samma sati and Samma samadhi. He has established a base of training, after 2-3 turns, he catches them, and quickly expels them. Buddha refers to 2-3 drops falling on a heated iron plate, they sizzle and evaporate right away. I think of the descent into void as described in MN 121, in relation to this simile.
  • Yet such a person too is fettered. Alas!
The fourth category: he is divested of suffering. He has understood that acquisition, the act of appropriating, of picking things up (Views too) and making them "mine" is the root of suffering. He is the smart guy, he is free of mining 'mine'.
In the sutta Buddha claims "I've known the particulars of faculties in all of the above persons. Only the last group has perfected his/her  faculties, 
  • S/he is the unfettered One!"
With love  :candle:
PS one simile from a precious sutta with several similes. Similes when understood correctly, is the best teacher in the canon. There is no pali, or Sanskrit, so Sankritizers who claim that Sanskrit is the root of Buddha's language is made speechless, by the beauty of the simile.The Simile of the Quail MN 66 https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN66.html
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Yet again from the sutta on the "Quail simile", this time stressing  the section on four buddhist jhanas, Buddha admonishes the monks with harsh words,
'the sensory cords, their filthy pleasure, you must not follow that'.
Naturally monks have given up the family life for a greater good, neither does it mean all pleasures are filthy. Sensibility of the senses that leads us onwards towards nibbana, bliss of jhana is to be sought. Putting on robes is only a symbolic gesture.
  • nakkhamasukha: bliss of renunciation
    pavivekhasukha: bliss of seclusion
    upsamasukkha: bliss of quiescences
    sambodhasukha: bliss of enlightenment.
As for sambodhi, even though jhana is not enlightenment, diligent practice, leads one to enlightenment. 
Pl pay attention to the  'Development of faculties', as this sutta stresses, Conviction, Energy, Mindfulness (Samma-Sati), absorption (Samma Samadhi), Dhamma vicaya.
Four jhanas do not sit in a vacuum or inside a random retreat.  

1st jhana is perturbed by vitaka, vicara, implying the ending thoughts in regard to sensory world, like the last few rain drops falling on the surface of a secluded lake, even fading contacts, create subtle ripples.

2nd jhana is perturbed by an exudation of Piti, an uplifted mind! exhilaration, even though feelings are very sublime, they create a base for subtle clinging.

3rd jhana, by development of indifference towards the forgoing. In 3rd jhana, a remnant of sukha perturbs, as refined as it is, is still a perturbation.

Turning one's back on forgoing, a perfection of mindfulness settles, 'anenja', 'anenjam' the imperturbable, 4th jhana. Nothing to perturb.

distantly feelings arise and fade away, distantly perceptions arise and fade away. Papanca has ceased. 
Underlying tendencies have no impact, feelings and perceptions are not cumulative, as in the ordinary state.
4th jhana is free of suffering, free from the limiting affect of aggregates. Arahant is free of aggregation, just like this state of 4th jhana.
"Don't let consciousness rest on the products of existence"
Buddha admonishes elsewhere, 'all' is retracted in this imperturbable state. What happens to consciousness when it becomes homeless? Peace
With love  :candle:
PS link to MN 66 is found in the preceding comment
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confusedlayman
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Re: Jhana

Post by confusedlayman »

Pulsar wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:44 am Yet again from the sutta on the "Quail simile", this time stressing  the section on four buddhist jhanas, Buddha admonishes the monks with harsh words,
'the sensory cords, their filthy pleasure, you must not follow that'.
Naturally monks have given up the family life for a greater good, neither does it mean all pleasures are filthy. Sensibility of the senses that leads us onwards towards nibbana, bliss of jhana is to be sought. Putting on robes is only a symbolic gesture.
  • nakkhamasukha: bliss of renunciation
    pavivekhasukha: bliss of seclusion
    upsamasukkha: bliss of quiescences
    sambodhasukha: bliss of enlightenment.
As for sambodhi, even though jhana is not enlightenment, diligent practice, leads one to enlightenment. 
Pl pay attention to the  'Development of faculties', as this sutta stresses, Conviction, Energy, Mindfulness (Samma-Sati), absorption (Samma Samadhi), Dhamma vicaya.
Four jhanas do not sit in a vacuum or inside a random retreat.  

1st jhana is perturbed by vitaka, vicara, implying the ending thoughts in regard to sensory world, like the last few rain drops falling on the surface of a secluded lake, even fading contacts, create subtle ripples.

2nd jhana is perturbed by an exudation of Piti, an uplifted mind! exhilaration, even though feelings are very sublime, they create a base for subtle clinging.

3rd jhana, by development of indifference towards the forgoing. In 3rd jhana, a remnant of sukha perturbs, as refined as it is, is still a perturbation.

Turning one's back on forgoing, a perfection of mindfulness settles, 'anenja', 'anenjam' the imperturbable, 4th jhana. Nothing to perturb.

distantly feelings arise and fade away, distantly perceptions arise and fade away. Papanca has ceased. 
Underlying tendencies have no impact, feelings and perceptions are not cumulative, as in the ordinary state.
4th jhana is free of suffering, free from the limiting affect of aggregates. Arahant is free of aggregation, just like this state of 4th jhana.
"Don't let consciousness rest on the products of existence"
Buddha admonishes elsewhere, 'all' is retracted in this imperturbable state. What happens to consciousness when it becomes homeless? Peace
With love  :candle:
PS link to MN 66 is found in the preceding comment
Homeless conciousness? How can there be conciousness without object? In 4th jhana conciousness takes confidence in 4th jhana factor and rest there
I take refuge in 3 jewels that are most rare thing
Pulsar
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Dear Confusedlayman I thought you promised me not to intervene for another year. Pl
do not break that promise. You will be blocked until then. Besides I thought you gained some
insight during your sabbatical. Prove that by not interrupting this thread.
I find it space consuming and distracting, when folks copy the entire comment in order
to query on one short point.
Pl participate in threads where you have not been blocked.
Best wishes, pl leave this thread alone :candle: :candle:
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