Jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Antaradhana
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Re: Jhana

Post by Antaradhana » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:06 am

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:24 am
what you practice cannot be buddhist jhana :candle:
I have not yet sufficiently developed the necessary qualities of the mind to enter into jhana. This is a very high condition.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

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DooDoot
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Re: Jhana

Post by DooDoot » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:40 am

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:24 am
True, Yasa the householder who met Buddha, heard a short sermon, instantly became an Arahant too. He did not appear to have meditated before, he was married and spent the night before with several musicians.
You appear to be saying Yasa was having a sexual orgy with musicians and the next day attained Arahantship. Not according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasa. Regardless, even if the above is true, it was one person from millions. Most importantly, it does not apply to you or us. Kind regards :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Pondera
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pondera » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:45 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:40 am
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:24 am
True, Yasa the householder who met Buddha, heard a short sermon, instantly became an Arahant too. He did not appear to have meditated before, he was married and spent the night before with several musicians.
You appear to be saying Yasa was having a sexual orgy with musicians and the next day attained Arahantship. Not according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasa. Regardless, even if the above is true, it was one person from millions. Most importantly, it does not apply to you or us. Kind regards :smile:
What other kind of “orgy” is there, DooDoot? A shmorgasborg, maybe? Can’t spell “shmorgasborg” without “orgas”!!! :jumping:
What is “rupa” Jhāna? Here are four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, rapture and equanimity - peacehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1sdgpi ... hIz3wgz7ep

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:03 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:29 pm
Do you have a firm belief that there is an atman/self in the things we believe to be self/atman.
The self isn't inside the body what is made of semen and blood but it can by feedback know what is going on in the body and you can take these signals as your own self. I say sense of self is and is required.
There is dream or sleep realm too what separates self from a body. So where the self originally is, could be very far.
Pulsar wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:29 pm
The notion regarding chakras and energy channels, is it not due to your imagination?
1. If you do something physically then there is a response in a body shaped after the physical activity.
2. You can access that place mentally what gets you the physical equivalent response.
3. There are pools in the body you can access when enough energy is stored and open the gates mentally and release energy.

the sensual energy pool there is stored sensual energy, it goes through different stages and forms. The idea of cultivation, internal practices are to lead that energy to a different channel and acclimate backwards, what you have forgotten you come to use once again.
Pulsar wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:29 pm
What happens to the chakras if a believer gets run over by a train?
If your body is destroied then there is no response, no pain anything. The feedback is cut by physical accident instead of lifespaw has depleted or you know how to end it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ātman_(Hinduism)
Ātman is the first principle,[4] the true self of an individual beyond identification with phenomena,
so why you don't believe it? it is logical.


trees need sunlight to wake up, to wake up your soul you need awakening factors.

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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:26 pm

Antaradhana wrote 8/5/19
The 1000 Kassapa disciples instantly became Arahants when they heard only one short sermon from the Buddha (Fiery sermon), as did Bahia, who was a great ascetic
and Pulsar replied
True
but I was kinda being sarcastic here. On a public forum on Theravada is that not quite an insult to Bahia, to compare him with the Kassapa disciples, the fire worshippers?
Do you want to tell the whole true story? since I do not have the time to copy entire section from Mahavagga.
Perhaps you never will, so let me put things straight. Bahia had walked all night and day looking for Buddha, found he was on alms round, and in the middle of it, pleaded with the Lord for a brief teaching, three times, mind you three times, and the lord obliged, the shortest teaching in the canon. Behold Bahia becomes the Arahant!
Quite a different story with your heroes, the Fire worshipping Kassapa brothers. Can you dear Antaradhana tell the Theravada Forum, how many small miracles the new Buddha had to perform, (he hated to perform miracles) before the leader of the fire worshippers took notice of the newly enlightened Buddha?
And in spite of these miracles the leading Kassapa brother, of the Fire worshippers kept thinking
in spite of these psychic powers, he is not a perfected one as I am
Then it occurred to the Lord:
Now for a long time it will occur to this foolish man, Truly the great recluse is of great psychic power, of great might, but yet he is not a perfected one as I am

above is a short excerpt from the Vinaya Pitaka, I shall copy the rest of the section later.
Now to get back to the egregious matter, your comparing the
foolish fire worshipper
(according to the Buddha) to the
amazing Bahia
for whom the Lord asked a stupa be built.
Was your comparison on a public Forum, fair or very unfair, or was it an innocent error, simply because you are not widely read? It appears to me you make too many claims, without knowing what you are talking about. For instance like many Bhagavat Geeta worshippers, you seem to think Buddhism is only a negligible tweaking of Vedic wisdom that prevailed over India before Buddha was born, and that there is no difference in the systems other than tillakkana :candle:

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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:46 pm

Pulsar has no comments on those who get their Dhamma from wikepedia. Pulsar relies on the canon for information, since he/she considers ill informing the public on Dhamma is a serious matter. It is true that wikipedia reports some things correctly, and some other things incorrectly. Who would go to such a source for serious information? Soon Wikepedia will write the entire canon, and we shall all be happily educated :)
When it comes to
Yasa's ordination
not only did the married layman become an Arahant on the first hearing of the Dhamma, but also within the same period 45 layman friends of Yasa approached the Buddha, and they too became Arahants.
  • This is what
the Book of Discipline reports translated by Isaline B. Horner.
Yasa and his 45 friends plus the Five monks who attended on the Buddha, made up Buddha's first 60 Arahant
disciples.
For things like lists i.e. list of bodhipakkiya Dhammas wikipedia does a good job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhipakkhiyādhammā. Interestingly these dhammas bring home to you
the importance of 4 rupa jhana meditation. It is included in four sections of the list.
Five spiritual faculties, Five strengths, Seven awakening factors, Noble 8-fold Path.

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DooDoot
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Re: Jhana

Post by DooDoot » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:32 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:46 pm
since he/she considers ill informing the public on Dhamma is a serious matter.
The matter does not sound "serious". The matter sounds like mythology. It seems the matter is not found in the suttas, apart from a probable belated short verse in Thag 1.117, therefore is probably mythology.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:46 pm
It is true that wikipedia reports some things correctly, and some other things incorrectly. Who would go to such a source for serious information? Soon Wikepedia will write the entire canon, and we shall all be happily educated
What is in Wikipedia sounds logical.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:46 pm
When it comes to Yasa's ordination not only did the married layman become an Arahant on the first hearing of the Dhamma, but also within the same period 45 layman friends of Yasa approached the Buddha, and they too became Arahants.
  • This is what the Book of Discipline reports translated by Isaline B. Horner
Its seem Isaline B. Horner was very wrong in her interpretation. The Book of Disciple says Yasa attained stream-entry upon hearing the Dhamma; using the same phases as found in the suttas about stream-entry, as follows:
When the Lord knew that the mind of Yasa, the young man of family, was ready, malleable, devoid of hindrances, uplifted, pleased, then he explained to him the teaching on dhamma which the awakened ones have themselves discovered: ill, uprising, stopping, the Way. And just as a clean cloth without black specks will take a dye easily, even so (as he was sitting) on that very seat, dhamma-vision, dustless, stainless, arose to Yasa, the young man of family, that whatever is of a nature to uprise, all that is of a nature to stop.”

https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd1/en/horner-brahmali
Also, since upon attaining Arahantship, Yasa could not return to the laylife, obviously he could not be classed as a "married layman". It seems Isaline B. Horner was, again, very wrong in her interpretation. The Book of Disciple says, the same as Wikipedia:
Then while the father of Yasa, the young man of family, was being taught dhamma, as he [Yasa] was reviewing his stage (of knowledge) as it was seen, as it was known, his mind was freed from the cankers without grasping. Then it occurred to the Lord: “While the father of Yasa, the young man of family, was being taught dhamma, as he was reviewing his stage (of knowledge) as it was seen, as it was known, his mind was freed from the cankers without grasping. Now Yasa, the young man of family, cannot become one, having turned back to the low life, to enjoy pleasures of the senses as he did formerly when leading a household life.

https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd1/en/horner-brahmali
Its seems, similar to imaginings about "jhana", your post about Yasa was prone to "overestimation" or "exaggeration". Also, your accusation against Wikipedia was wrong. It seems, similar to Isaline B. Horner, your ideas were wrong, here. :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Antaradhana
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Re: Jhana

Post by Antaradhana » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:26 am

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:26 pm
but I was kinda being sarcastic here. On a public forum on Theravada is that not quite an insult to Bahia, to compare him with the Kassapa disciples, the fire worshippers?
Do you want to tell the whole true story? since I do not have the time to copy entire section from Mahavagga.
Perhaps you never will, so let me put things straight. Bahia had walked all night and day looking for Buddha, found he was on alms round, and in the middle of it, pleaded with the Lord for a brief teaching, three times, mind you three times, and the lord obliged, the shortest teaching in the canon. Behold Bahia becomes the Arahant!
Quite a different story with your heroes, the Fire worshipping Kassapa brothers. Can you dear Antaradhana tell the Theravada Forum, how many small miracles the new Buddha had to perform, (he hated to perform miracles) before the leader of the fire worshippers took notice of the newly enlightened Buddha?
And in spite of these miracles the leading Kassapa brother, of the Fire worshippers kept thinking in spite of these psychic powers, he is not a perfected one as I am
Then it occurred to the Lord: Now for a long time it will occur to this foolish man, Truly the great recluse is of great psychic power, of great might, but yet he is not a perfected one as I am
above is a short excerpt from the Vinaya Pitaka, I shall copy the rest of the section later.
I read these stories from Vinaya. Kassapa brothers, with his disciples and Bahia were famous hermits, reached the jhana before meeting with the Buddha, and Bahia, like Kassapa brothers, considered himself awakened until the deity told him that this was not so. The Kassapa brothers with their disciples and Bahia quickly became Arahants, after a short exhortation from the Buddha.
Now to get back to the egregious matter, your comparing the foolish fire worshipper (according to the Buddha) to the amazing Bahiafor whom the Lord asked a stupa be built.
Was your comparison on a public Forum, fair or very unfair, or was it an innocent error, simply because you are not widely read? It appears to me you make too many claims, without knowing what you are talking about. For instance like many Bhagavat Geeta worshippers, you seem to think Buddhism is only a negligible tweaking of Vedic wisdom that prevailed over India before Buddha was born, and that there is no difference in the systems other than tillakkana :candle:
:strawman:
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

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DooDoot
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Re: Jhana

Post by DooDoot » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:36 am

Antaradhana wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:26 am
I read these stories from Vinaya. Kassapa brothers, with his disciples and Bahia were famous hermits, reached the jhana before meeting with the Buddha...
I agree. To attain Arahantship when 1st hearing Dhamma, I imagine the mind must be very pure (4th jhana) but has not yet realised anatta. This is why the story of Yasa is difficult for me to believe. This is also another reason I am highly skeptical about the ideas of Pulsar. My impression is Pulsar does not know or appreciate it takes time, from the start of samadhi, to purify past accumulations. My impression is Pulsar believes any type of equanimity is the 4th jhana.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am

Auto wrote
I say sense of self is and is required.
My dear Auto: this is where we have a communication block, I think I asked you before too.
what is your sense of self? It appears the answer is below... right
the sensual energy pool there is stored sensual energy, it goes through different stages and forms. The idea of cultivation, internal practices are to lead that energy to a different channel and acclimate backwards, what you have forgotten you come to use once again
It is true there are all these biochemical functions, the electrical firing of the nervous system,
along with the communication systems that operate via hormones, the moving blood, those swirling blood pools in the heart, plus interstitial fluid. That is a necessary consequence of having acquired this karmic form. Even buddha said of these biochemical functions, and the physicality, not even the living Arahant is free.
The material body, is one part of the five aggregates that appears as a self.
To me it seems more like the emperor's clothes, that in our ignorance, we hang onto, and consequently
subscribe to the notion, of self, even if one is able to conceive
that the mentalities are not self.
Pulsar's difficulty in communicating with you, is Pulsar has shed the emperor's clothes.
When Pulsar considers the physical body, Pulsar merely thinks, these sensations emanating
from the body, the very body is a representation of Pulsar's karma, the result of
accumulated volitional activity, craving, and ignorance of Pulsar.
  • So Pulsar is not enamored of it, as Auto is
You also linked me to Wikipedia, for what it is worth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ātman_(Hinduism)
Ātman is the first principle,[4] the true self of an individual beyond identification with phenomena,
so why you don't believe it? it is logical.
I have not read it, but this I am aware, for a person raised in a Hindu background, to get rid
of the notion of Atman is pure blasphemy. For the one who has gained perfect confidence
in the enlightenment of Tathagata, it is the opposite, that person is on a mission
to drop all notion of a self, created by the activity of aggregates.
The whole point of Hinduism is the joining of the soul with Brahman, the great creator, the
universal consciousness, the magnificent being. But Buddha in some suttas, (allegorically written)
kinda made fun of Brahman.

Auto wrote
trees need sunlight to wake up, to wake up your soul you need awakening factors.
True if there is a so called Soul
With love :heart:

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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:55 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
My dear Auto: this is where we have a communication block, I think I asked you before too.
what is your sense of self? It appears the answer is below... right
use brahma viharas what you described in other thread, but ask "who i am" instead, you will come aware of yourself with a location where you are and what you are doing(you will come aware of the body)
Sense of self is for to locate your body, to come aware of your body. You can try it out anytime and confirm that it is so.
Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
It is true there are all these biochemical functions, the electrical firing of the nervous system,
You can use belly in a certain way what cause sensation in other place and you then can focus on that sensation. You can confirm it, if you have gasses you can fart them out, and it works only if you have gasses. There is some sort of subtle gas what is directed by breath properties.
Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
That is a necessary consequence of having acquired this karmic form. Even buddha said of these biochemical functions, and the physicality, not even the living Arahant is free.
that's not giving you a permission to use sensual desires as you please. Craving is what causes dukkha, uneducated knows one type of escape from that dukkha, it is by a sensual action derived pleasure. In short you want to be with things you like.

When imagining of not getting what is desired we will see the space of no feeling, and there will pain(aversion, repulsion, it is terrifying etc) arise due the ignorance what is tied to that space, its common to therefore work opposite way and focus on pleasant feelings what arise after obtaining what you desire.
liberation is where is nothing felt. You could get rid of craving by dwelling where is nothing felt. That space is deathless, property of inconceiveable. And the desire originated dhamma will get rooted there and with the next round will end completely.
Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
Pulsar merely thinks, these sensations emanating
from the body, the very body is a representation of Pulsar's karma, the result of
accumulated volitional activity, craving, and ignorance of Pulsar.
By moving gas from point A to B can result in dissolving an ailment what were impairing you, your actions were conditioned by it, not anymore.
Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
For the one who has gained perfect confidence
in the enlightenment of Tathagata, it is the opposite, that person is on a mission
to drop all notion of a self, created by the activity of aggregates.
If you don't have self, then you won't be able to laugh nor cry, not possible to copulate nor breath also eyes would not blink.
Take the no copulation thing as example its written in Sutta. You prolly call it baloney, but it isn't, its what Sutta says about enlightened one.

you will be in a state where the doer is absent. You have awareness, but you don't see nor hear anything.

that same state is merged with ordinary life continuum, the distinction is eradicated. It is what eventually allows you to bypass chemical dependency
Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
The whole point of Hinduism is the joining of the soul with Brahman, the great creator, the
universal consciousness, the magnificent being. But Buddha in some suttas, (allegorically written)
kinda made fun of Brahman.
Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am
I have not read it, but this I am aware, for a person raised in a Hindu background, to get rid
of the notion of Atman is pure blasphemy.
you wrote that the hindu idea is to join individual soul with brahman. Therefore the perception of individual soul kind of is let go. So according to this it is not blasphemy, it is blasphemy if you start telling that there is no self without having any gnosis explained.

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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:01 pm

Auto wrote
it is blasphemy if you start telling that there is no self without having any gnosis explained
My bad, it is not something that can be explained in words, In MN 64 Buddha says to Ananda the only way to get rid of Identity View is practice of the 4 rupa jhanas.
https://suttacentral.net/mn64/en/bodhi

Now in order to practice Buddhist Jhana, one has to get rid of doubt. As long as one has doubt in the Awakening of the Buddha, one cannot practice the buddhist jhanas.
So the debate about "Is there a self?" is pointless between you and I. I am a firm believer in the Tathagata's awakening.
So can we pl. drop the topic?
I like to discuss Ayatanas with you, since you introduced it a few comments ago.
I had not thought of Jhanic stages as Ayatanas, since I confined myself to the four Rupa jhanas, and suttas that discussed those only, mostly. These are the only relevant ones, in relation to the 8-fold path.
But since I started to chat with you I became curious and read a few suttas I normally do not read.
It really helps to be on Dhamma Wheel.
Dear Auto you are right, some suttas that have the Formless stages sandwiched between the first four Form stages and cessation, do call these ayatanas. You had in fact mentioned AN 9.31 before. So tried to make sense of it, since these stages are so blandly stated in AN 9.31.
An aside, if you understood MN 43, by reading the sutta and BB foot notes, you would understand this, in the forth jhana It can know the immaterial attainments in so far as one established in the 4th jhana is capable or reaching them
So I had no need to separately practice 4-8 formless. I took the short cut, plus if you had read Sutta Nipata, this fact would be quite clear.
The reason I brought up AN 9.31, and Ayatanas, is to tell you, if you want a detailed explanation of it, you must read AN 9.36. I could not find a link on the web, that is as good as BB translation.
You are smart, can you find a link to AN 9.36, that is not a chopped up version. If you do and if you read it, AN 9.31 will make perfect sense.
AN 9.36 is amazing in that it explains how to wipe the defilements, without going thru 2-4.
But I guess to do that one needs to be fairly experienced.
Have a fine day dear Auto :heart:

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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:17 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:01 pm
My bad, it is not something that can be explained in words, In MN 64 Buddha says to Ananda the only way to get rid of Identity View is practice of the 4 rupa jhanas.
https://suttacentral.net/mn64/en/bodhi
identity - sakkāya

https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/sujato
“Visākha, the Buddha said that these five grasping aggregates are identity. “Pañca kho ime, āvuso visākha, upādānakkhandhā sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā, That is: form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness. seyyathidaṃ—rūpupādānakkhandho, vedanupādānakkhandho, saññupādānakkhandho, saṅkhārupādānakkhandho, viññāṇupādānakkhandho.
origin of identity
What is the origin of identity that the Buddha spoke of?” Katamo nu kho, ayye, sakkāyasamudayo vutto bhagavatā”ti?

“It’s the craving that leads to future rebirth, mixed up with relishing and greed, taking pleasure in various different realms. That is, “Yāyaṃ, āvuso visākha, taṇhā ponobbhavikā nandīrāgasahagatā tatratatrābhinandinī, seyyathidaṃ—
craving for sensual pleasures, craving to continue existence, and craving to end existence. kāmataṇhā bhavataṇhā vibhavataṇhā;
https://suttacentral.net/mn64/en/sujato
Their heart is overcome and mired in identity view, sakkāyadiṭṭhipariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati sakkāyadiṭṭhiparetena; and they don’t truly understand the escape from identity view that has arisen. uppannāya ca sakkāyadiṭṭhiyā nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti.
cetasā is citta in use, in action.
And what, Ānanda, is the path and the practice for giving up the five lower fetters?
It’s when a mendicant—due to the seclusion from attachments, the giving up of unskillful qualities,.. Idhānanda, bhikkhu upadhivivekā akusalānaṃ dhammānaṃ
seclusion from attachments. The attachments here are upadhi, an origin of identity.
and the complete settling of physical discomfort..pahānā sabbaso kāyaduṭṭhullānaṃ paṭippassaddhiyā
when you are secluded from the coffee what you desire to drink(to give rise to existence) there will be physical discomfort and akusala dhammas arise. But over time they will settle down and seclusion born bliss arises.

the sakkaya/upadanakhahdas are existence. Thre the phenomena are self.

while when in jhana the phenomena what arises there is no self.
They contemplate the phenomena there—included in form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness—as impermanent, as suffering, as diseased, as an abscess, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as falling apart, as empty, as not-self.
it is after the body have calmed down you see the phenomena there impermanent regards to the aggregates when you would have had drink the coffee.
Pulsar wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:01 pm
So the debate about "Is there a self?" is pointless between you and I. I am a firm believer in the Tathagata's awakening.
So can we pl. drop the topic?
when you have craving you don't think straight you think you can't live without(what ever you want to do and experience) its only after the fact when you have defeated the urge you see the phenomena there impermanent, pointless, disease, anatta... So when craving is on you need relay on faith that its impermanet thats its going to end so i jsut need maintain discipline by keeping my mind focused and not lose to the desires.

So i think Sutta jhana is not walk on a park.
*coffee is random example.

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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:07 pm

Thank you Auto, for the suttas, and thank you for taking the time to write, like sunlight
pouring in. At the end you wrote
So i think Sutta jhana is not walk on a park
interesting comment. On some other thread, I heard folks arguing about sutta
jhana and Visuddhimagga jhana. However that must be because they understood neither one,
'cause once you understand, there is no difference in these.
Words in the literature, (nimitta, Kasina, access, neighborhood, absorption, change of linage) make people trip, when they overthink these. Words confuse some. Sensible people just do what needs be done intuitively. They read first the suttas and VSM, later drop the use of language.
For instance some say absorption is focus on one thing, but jhanic concentration is a dynamic
meditation. It is a paradox, just like 'self' is a paradox to some.
The issue with jhana is, in the past folks have been lead to believe that the laymen cannot do it,
so it requires a paradigm shift, to get people to even entertain the notion that they can do it,
that it can be lots better than
a Walk in the park
Some say there is no entering jhana, as if there was a door to open, some call it an attainment
and say "O it is a very high state" folks like us cannot get there, (but there is no place to get to) in Buddha's time a leper was a able to settle into that kind of concentration/meditation. I am sure he was physically hurting, but was able to settle into that profound concentration, when the spiritual eye becomes wide open.
Have fun Auto with whatever you do :candle:

Pulsar
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:37 pm

The comments I make on the other thread related to Jhana may interest you too. It will save me the time of modifying these to
suit the title. :candle:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34797&p=523872#p523872

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