Mindfulness vs full consciousness

[Everaldo]

What is the difference between mindfulness (awareness, sati) and full consciousness (Sampajanna)?

[budo]

Good question, it seems like every resource / video I read & watch about Sampajanna offers a different definition.

According to wikipedia:

Sampajañña (Pāli; Skt.: saṃprajanya) means "clear comprehension",[1] "clear knowing,"[2] "constant thorough understanding of impermanence",[3] "fully alert"[4] or "full awareness",[5] as well as "attention, consideration, discrimination, comprehension, circumspection", [6] or introspection.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampaja%C3%B1%C3%B1a

The definition I'm most interested in exploring is:

"constant thorough understanding of impermanence"

Which last time I researched this along with the Anupada sutta, implies that one experiences impermanence (and thus true Sampajanna) in third jhana. I've also read it's in third supermundane jhana when one attains non-return but I'm not sure how true this is.

Also from wikipedia:

Clear comprehension develops out of mindfulness of breathing (ānāpānasati) and is subsequently present in tandem with mindfulness for all four satipaṭṭhāna-s.[9][8]

So perhaps both develop in tandem, and become stronger with each jhana, leading to stronger insights into the 3 characteristics, and by extension the 4 noble truths.

[Sam Vara]

Budo is quite right - you can almost find any definition of both these terms to fit one's preconceptions!

Just to add to the mix, here's one pair of definitions and explications from Ajahn Jayasaro that I really like.



If it doesn't help, just ignore it!

[paul]

In sati-sampajanna two words are used because sampajanna (clear comprehension of the present) in itself does not lead to wisdom, it needs the action of mindfulness to complete the correct apprehension of present events. Mindfulness provides the element of memory, which brings the recollection of impermanence to bear on the present, generating an attitude of circumspection. The definition of mindfulness also includes ardency (ardent, clearly conscious and mindful), so in some cases action tactics will be included in clear comprehension and mindfulness.

"For the determining of the object by isolating it, and for the sifting out thoroughly of the apparently compact nature of things like continuity," this too should be understood: This person contemplates in this body only the body; he does not contemplate anything else. What does this mean? In this definitely transient, suffering, soulless body, that is unlovely, he does not see permanence, pleasure, a soul, nor beauty, after the manner of those animals which see water in a mirage. Body-contemplation is only the contemplation of the collection of qualities of transiency, suffering, soullessness, and unloveliness.”—commentary on Satipatthana sutta

It should not be overlooked that the first quality of impermanence is transiency, which means movement and first and foremost a sense that the body and mind are moving should be cultivated. In the west the influence of samatha has given an impression that the subject has always to be pinned down, but in insight, movement has ascendancy.

[DooDoot]

What is the difference between mindfulness (awareness, sati) and full consciousness (Sampajanna)?

'Mindfulness' means 'remembering' or 'keeping in mind'. It is a factor of concentration.

'Sampajanna' means 'ready wisdom' or 'clearly comprehending with wisdom'. It is a factor of wisdom.

I recommend the video of Ajahn Jayasaro posted above.

[Spiny Norman]

What is the difference between mindfulness (awareness, sati) and full consciousness (Sampajanna)?

Looking at MN10, sati has the meaning of paying attention to various aspects of experience. This leads to sampajanna, a clearer understanding of what is happening.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

You could add the intermediate stage of investigation of states ( dhamma vicaya ), which is the second factor of enlightenment ( bojjhanga). This would then be roughly analogous to the scientific process of collecting data, analysing data and forming conclusions.
With this analogy you could look at the three marks ( tilakkhaṇa ) as theories to be tested.

[Spiny Norman]

In the west the influence of samatha has given an impression that the subject has always to be pinned down, but in insight, movement has ascendancy.

Yes, and there needs to be an appreciation of both stillness and movement. I've found that observing movement also leads to an awareness of stillness, confirming the idea that samatha and vipassana are really two sides of the same coin.

[paul]

The seven factors of awakening are divided into two groups, energy and tranquillity, three of each, with mindfulness being the central regulating factor- investigation of dhamma, energy and rapture constituting one group and tranquillity, concentration and equinimity the other. It is necessary to understand that the tranquillity group is incapable of action, as illustrated here:

“When the mind is centered, phenomena become manifest.”—-SN 55.40
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Phenomena become passively manifest, but they cannot be investigated without the action of mindfulness and the energy group. The factor of energy is linked to right effort. The sutta also illustrates implicitly how serenity normally precedes insight, and that the linear arrangement of the formula for the factors of awakening can be rearranged in practice, with mindfulness in the middle and the position of the two groups reversed.

[pegembara]

Sati = is simply to Remember, Recall, Remind
Sampajanna = being fully or clearly aware of what the mind is paying attention to

15. "And how, bhikkhus, does a bhikkhu have clear comprehension? When he remains fully aware of his (actions) coming and going, his looking forward and his looking away, his bending and stretching, his wearing of his robe and carrying of his bowl, his eating and drinking, masticating and savoring, his defecating and urinating, his walking, standing, sitting, lying down, going to sleep or keeping awake, his speaking or being silent, then is he said to have clear comprehension.
"Mindful should you dwell, bhikkhus, clearly comprehending; thus I exhort you."

From this it becomes evident that according to the Buddha, whenever there is sammā-sati or satipaṭṭhāna, it is always withsampajañña. That means it is with paññā (wisdom). Otherwise it is mere sati, which is mere remembrance or awareness.

In the Sutta Pitaka, the Buddha gave two explanation of the term sampajañña. In the Samyutta-nikāya the Buddha definessampajāno as follows:

Kathañca, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sampajāno hoti? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno viditā vedanā uppajjanti, viditā upaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbatthaṃ gacchanti; viditā sañña uppajjanti, viditā uppaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti; viditā vitakkā uppajjanti, viditā upaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti. Evam kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sampajāno hoti.

And how, meditators, does a meditator understand thoroughly? Herein, meditators, a meditator knows sensations arising in him, knows their persisting, and knows their vanishing; he knows perceptions arising in him, knows their persisting, and knows their vanishing; he knows each initial application (of the mind on an object) arising in him, knows its persisting, and knows its vanishing. This, meditators, is how a meditator understands thoroughly.

In the above statement, it becomes clear that one is sampajāno only when one realizes the characteristic of impermanence, and that too on the basis of experience of sensation (viditā vedanā). If this is not realized through vedanā, then it is merely an intellectualization, as our fundamental contact with the world is based on sensation. It is through sensation that direct experience occurs. The statement further indicates that sampajāno lies in experiencing the impermanence of vedanā, vitakka(the initial application of the mind on an object) and saññā (perception). Here we should note that impermanence of vedanā is to be realized first because according to the Buddha:

https://www.vridhamma.org/node/2485

[Spiny Norman]

Sati = is simply to Remember, Recall, Remind

Remember what though?

MN10 is the core text on sati, where sati has the meaning of paying attention, not "remembering". Except in the sense of remembering to be mindful!

[Manopubbangama]

Sati = is simply to Remember, Recall, Remind

Remember what though?

MN10 is the core text on sati, where sati has the meaning of paying attention, not "remembering". Except in the sense of remembering to be mindful!

Great post, Dinsdale.

I don't know if anyone here has or has not read "Manual of Insight" by Mahasi Sayadaw, but it is an excellent manual on Sati and has many exercises on how to experience Sati, first hand.

The video of Ajahn Jayasaro is excellent, as well.

Here is a great tika-excerpt from the Manual of Insight on what constitutes sampajanna, *translated as 'clear comprehenion:

Clear Comprehension without delusion or clear comprehension or reality is the knowledge that there is no "I" or "self: behind activities. Understand it in the following way: ordinary people have deluded views about going forward and so on, such as "the self goes forward," "the self makes a forward movement," "I go forward," or "I make a movement." On the other hand, a bhikkhu (monk or meditator) who is going forward or backward understands that, when one intends to go forward, the intention and the movement it causes makes movement to another place happen. As the movement instigated by the mind spreads everywhere, the collection of physical phenomena, the so-called body, moves forward. While going forward, every time one lifts a foot, the earth and water element becomes weak and ineffectual and the fire and air elements become strong and powerful. The same is true when pushing the foot down. When one releases momentum from pushing the foot forward, the fire and are elements become weak and ineffectual, and the earth and water elements become strong and powerful. This continues while dropping and pressing the foot.

[DooDoot]

Great post, Dinsdale... Mahasi Sayadaw

Fortunately, the above will be debated.

The video of Ajahn Jayasaro is excellent, as well.

How can this be when Ajahn Jayasaro appears to disagree with Dinsdale?

[Spiny Norman]

The definition I'm most interested in exploring is:

"constant thorough understanding of impermanence"

IMO impermanence is something to be noticed, not something to be pursued or intellectualised.

[DooDoot]

IMO impermanence is something to be noticed, not something to be pursued or intellectualised.

Maybe. But this "noticing" is not mindfulness. Mindfulness is defined as "remembering". From SN 48.10:

And what is the faculty of mindfulness? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, is mindful, highly meticulous, remembering & able to call to mind even things that were done & said long ago.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

From Abidhamma:

"What is sammasati? Sati means to bear in mind or bring to mind. Sati is the state of recollecting, the state of remembering, the state of non-fading, the state of non-forgetting. Sati means the sati that is a Spiritual Faculty, the sati that is a Spiritual Power, Sammasati, the Sati that is an Enlightenment Factor, that which is a Path Factor and that which is related to the Path. This is what is called sammasati." [Vbh.105, 286]

Where is the word "sati" found in the quote below about "noticing": ?

When your mind is immersed in samādhi you need not make a wish:
Samāhitassa, bhikkhave, na cetanāya karaṇīyaṃ:

‘May I truly know and see!’
‘yathābhūtaṃ jānāmi passāmī’ti.

It’s only natural to truly know and see when your mind is immersed in samādhi.
Dhammatā esā, bhikkhave, yaṃ samāhito yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati.

https://suttacentral.net/an11.2/en/sujato

[DooDoot]

IMO impermanence is something to be noticed, not something to be pursued or intellectualised.

You appear to be contradicting yourself above; where you say impermanence (an object of satipatthana) is to be merely "noticed" rather than "pursued" or "practised". Yet you are making many posts on this forum about how your idea of "sati" ("paying attention") is to be practised (pursued). The same can be said for the breathing, namely, it is to be merely "noticed". Yet you seem to be saying breathing must be "paid attention" to by practise or pursuing.