Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
Considering the fact the First Jhana comprise of Vitakka, Vicara (wholesome) I can not understand why speech has to be ceased in first Jhana.
What is the mental state we have when we speak?
Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
Greetings Sarath,
If you've achieved any degree of meditative calm, then you know that to generate speech would be a disturbance in itself.
Metta,
Paul.
The jhanas constitute a "thinning out" of the fabrications and activities of daily life. You'll note that each jhana is generally characterised not by what's there, but by that which is no longer present. The process of speech, and the thoughts and intentions underpinning it is too active for the first jhana.
It's simpler to think, than it is to think and speak. In this context, see MN 44.
If you've achieved any degree of meditative calm, then you know that to generate speech would be a disturbance in itself.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
Thanks Retro
Which means, I can't even walk if I am in first Jhana?
Which means, I can't even walk if I am in first Jhana?
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Re: Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
Greetings Sarath,
Paul.
Read MN 20 and tell us what you think...
Metta,Just as the thought would occur to a man walking quickly, 'Why am I walking quickly? Why don't I walk slowly?' So he walks slowly. The thought occurs to him, 'Why am I walking slowly? Why don't I stand?' So he stands. The thought occurs to him, 'Why am I standing? Why don't I sit down?' So he sits down. The thought occurs to him, 'Why am I sitting? Why don't I lie down?' So he lies down. In this way, giving up the grosser posture, he takes up the more refined one.
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
Good point.giving up the grosser posture, he takes up the more refined one.
But It won't tell whether you can't be in first Jhana when you are walking.
I am not sure whether there is a refined speech.
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Re: Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
is that so?
because reasoning and deliberation are preparations for speech
and in second jhana these are stilled?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/ptf ... jhana.html
because reasoning and deliberation are preparations for speech
and in second jhana these are stilled?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/ptf ... jhana.html
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Re: Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
The way I understand Vitakka and Vicara is the mind talking (speech).
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Why speech ceased in first Jhana?
Mind talking, mouth talking all need the same thinking and pondering which is not a stilled mind. If you can do this then you can also walk or drive a car as some claimed to be doing while absorbed in a jhāna. Then that jhāna has nothing special compared to the mind state of an ordinary person.