Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 2217
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:27 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:25 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:24 pm
How badly do those Sutta trigger you from 1-10?
When a teacher teaches, the student should be silent. If you ordain as a monk; you will not be allowed to talk like a hyperactive child.
You are the teacher i guess? Hahaha, seriously hahahaha :rofl: Shouldn't laugh but you are hilarious.

Also for being childish, perhaps you should share your past-time paintings with the community so people can see what an artist you are. Doubt it will add to your credibility as a teacher or a scholar but just for lulz.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3178
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by DooDoot » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:44 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:27 pm
lulz.
I started a new thread on AN 9.34 and finished it. :sage:

User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Pondera » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:17 am

one_awakening wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:56 am
Pondera wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:50 am
I don’t attain Nibbana regularly due to time restrictions
People got criticized in this thread for just saying they occasionally enter the Jhanas.
It seems I am above criticism. People generally just ignore me. Which is fine. If anyone were to challenge me, I would smash their views into pieces. That’s not even the point. People simply want to realize the highest utmost for their own self - ie. they aren’t really interested in what anyone has to say about it (unless that person is an authority on the matter). Who am I. Just some random person who stumbled upon jhana and Nibbana out of necessity and suffering. No one cares. :( I’m a useless source of useless information as far as anyone cares.
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3178
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:25 am

Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:17 am
If anyone were to challenge me, I would smash their views into pieces.
I saw wrong views were smashed to pieces on another thread; where it appeared it was not understand the difference between the 'five aggregates' and 'disenchantment' towards the five aggregates. If the Buddha did not have five aggregates, how did the Buddha walk, talk, eat, shit, see, hear and think? :shrug:

User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Pondera » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:40 am

"And what is the purpose of disenchantment? What is its reward?"

"Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of dispassion? What is its reward?"

"Dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.
AN 11.1

The purpose of disenchantment is dispassion. The purpose of dispassion is knowledge and vision of release. I understand the five aggregates and I understand exactly how one is released from them.

How did the Buddha shit, eat, etc. ? What the hell are you even going on about? What point are you trying to make here?
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3178
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:02 am

Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:40 am
How did the Buddha shit, eat, etc. ? What the hell are you even going on about? What point are you trying to make here?
I recall Pondera previously made the post below; which appeared to equate the cessation of feeling & perception with disenchantment towards feeling & perception:
Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:52 am
You actually think he has to prove that the cessation of feeling and perception is NIbbana? Isn’t this one of the most obvious and original truths in Buddhism?
At Savatthi. "For a monk practicing the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, what accords with the Dhamma is this: that he keep cultivating disenchantment with regard to form, that he keep cultivating disenchantment with regard to feeling, that he keep cultivating disenchantment with regard to perception, that he keep cultivating disenchantment with regard to fabrications, that he keep cultivating disenchantment with regard to consciousness. As he keeps cultivating disenchantment with regard to form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness, he comprehends form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness. As he comprehends form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness, he is totally released from form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness. He is totally released from sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs. He is totally released, I tell you, from suffering & stress."
Based on the post above, Pondera appears to believe a Buddha has no perception & no feeling; ever.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3178
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:14 am

Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:16 am
In Paranibanna that most certainly is the case.
Sure.
Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:16 am
But like any other arahant, the Buddha must shit and eat so long as he is alive. Your points are not being well made, DD.
My points are very well made. I did not quote SN 22.39 wrongly. I did not wrongly believe all sankharas are the "citta sankhara" (in MN 43 & MN 44). Nor did I accuse another of being "wrong" when I was in fact wrong.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:25 am, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Pondera » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:16 am

In Paranibanna that most certainly is the case. But like any other arahant, the Buddha must shit and eat so long as he is alive. Your points are not being well made, DD.
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3178
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:17 am

:focus:
Pondera wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:50 am
I have entered all eight jhanas sequentially without much effort or trouble many times. Once you realize that “rupa” jhana refers to the four great elements; once you discover those elements in your heart - the first four jhanas are easy to attain. I’m not referring to Buddhaghosa’s idea of jhana.
I suspect when the sankharas (accumulated/stored mental formations) with the nervous system of the physical body are purified & tranquilised, the nerves within the nervous system ("chakra") of the physical body start to bliss out with rapture & happiness. This bliss is the foundation of the four rupa jhanas. When this bliss ends with the 4th jhana and the last movement of breathing is also tranquilised with the 4th jhana; then there is a jhana based only on mind, which is arupa jhana.

Also, because the bliss of rupa jhana is based on the physical body (similar to how a fire is based in sticks of wood); the mind does not necessary know the physical body in rupa jhana (similar to how the body only feels the heat of fire but not the wood by which the fire burns).

I think “rupa” jhana does not refer to any awareness of the four great elements. :smile: MN 1 also says this (where MN 1 equates the 1st jhana with "Brahma" but not with the four elements).

User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Pondera » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:12 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:17 am
:focus:
Pondera wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:50 am
I have entered all eight jhanas sequentially without much effort or trouble many times. Once you realize that “rupa” jhana refers to the four great elements; once you discover those elements in your heart - the first four jhanas are easy to attain. I’m not referring to Buddhaghosa’s idea of jhana.
I suspect when the sankharas (accumulated/stored mental formations) with the nervous system of the physical body are purified & tranquilised, the nerves within the nervous system ("chakra") of the physical body start to bliss out with rapture & happiness. This bliss is the foundation of the four rupa jhanas. When this bliss ends with the 4th jhana and the last movement of breathing is also tranquilised with the 4th jhana; then there is a jhana based only on mind, which is arupa jhana.

Also, because the bliss of rupa jhana is based on the physical body (similar to how a fire is based in sticks of wood); the mind does not necessary know the physical body in rupa jhana (similar to how the body only feels the heat of fire but not the wood by which the fire burns).

I think “rupa” jhana does not refer to any awareness of the four great elements. :smile: MN 1 also says this (where MN 1 equates the 1st jhana with "Brahma" but not with the four elements).
I’ll agree with you on one thing. An understanding of chakras is necessary to understand jhana. Besides that, you’re welcome to try my system out. I posted the entire PDF in Google Drive on a previous page.

The actual bliss occurs when chemicals from the heart are released. The chakras are instrumental in calming the mind down enough to allow for that. However; As I said in another, earlier post - I will sleep now :)
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

User avatar
budo
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am
Location: The world

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by budo » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:19 am

Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:17 am
one_awakening wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:56 am
Pondera wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:50 am
I don’t attain Nibbana regularly due to time restrictions
People got criticized in this thread for just saying they occasionally enter the Jhanas.
It seems I am above criticism. People generally just ignore me. Which is fine. If anyone were to challenge me, I would smash their views into pieces. That’s not even the point. People simply want to realize the highest utmost for their own self - ie. they aren’t really interested in what anyone has to say about it (unless that person is an authority on the matter). Who am I. Just some random person who stumbled upon jhana and Nibbana out of necessity and suffering. No one cares. :( I’m a useless source of useless information as far as anyone cares.
The conceit is a sign that your actions do not align with your words and thus create doubt. I believed you until you wrote this message. An arahant has no conceit, and if you attained nibbana you would be an arahant.

In fact an arahant wouldn't care if anyone listened to them. I wouldn't care if people choose to smash their own toes with a hammer, I would ask them "Hey friend, are you aware that you are smashing your own toes with a hammer?" and if they told me to leave then I'd leave, because trying to convince them is stressful to me and I'm not interested in stress.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3178
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:50 am

Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:12 am
I’ll agree with you on one thing. An understanding of chakras is necessary to understand jhana.
No. We definitely do not agree. I only referred to the chakras for your sake. Chakra is not necessary to understand jhana; which is why the Buddha never mentioned it. The Buddha taught jhana is reached by making "letting go" ("vossagga") the meditation object (SN 48.10).
Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:12 am
Besides that, you’re welcome to try my system out. I posted the entire PDF in Google Drive on a previous page.
Your Hinduistic PDF reminded me of the best selling book "Heal Your Body" by Louise Hay (who reported had plastic surgery in her old age).
Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:12 am
The actual bliss occurs when chemicals from the heart are released. The chakras are instrumental in calming the mind down enough to allow for that. However; As I said in another, earlier post - I will sleep now :)
Yes. Best to sleep now rather than post Hinduism & New Age Foo Foo. :zzz:
Pondera wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:50 am
I have entered all eight jhanas sequentially without much effort or trouble many times. Once you realize that “rupa” jhana refers to the four great elements; once you discover those elements in your heart - the first four jhanas are easy to attain. I’m not referring to Buddhaghosa’s idea of jhana.
A bhikkhu would be expelled from the order for the above statement (unless forgiven due to deluded by gross overestimation). The bottom line is jhana is unrelated to knowing the four great elements. To quote:
There is the case where an individual, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He savors that, longs for that, finds satisfaction through that. Staying there — fixed on that, dwelling there often, not falling away from that — then when he dies he reappears in conjunction with the devas of Brahma's retinue.

AN 4.123
The Blessed One said: "There is the case, monks, where an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — who has no regard for noble ones, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma; who has no regard for men of integrity, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma — perceives earth as earth. Perceiving earth as earth, he conceives [things] about earth, he conceives [things] in earth, he conceives [things] coming out of earth, he conceives earth as 'mine,' he delights in earth. Why is that? Because he has not comprehended it, I tell you.

"He perceives water as water... fire as fire... wind as wind ... beings as beings... gods as gods...Pajapati as Pajapati...Brahma as Brahma... the luminous gods as luminous gods... the gods of refulgent glory as gods of refulgent glory... the gods of abundant fruit as the gods of abundant fruit... the Conqueror as the Conqueror ... the dimension of the infinitude of space as the dimension of the infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness as the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... the dimension of nothingness as the dimension of nothingness... the dimension of neither-perception-nor-non-perception as the dimension of neither-perception-nor-non-perception[3] ... the seen as the seen... the heard as the heard... the sensed as the sensed... the cognized as the cognized ... singleness as singleness... multiplicity as multiplicity ... the All as the All ...

"He perceives Unbinding as Unbinding.[7] Perceiving Unbinding as Unbinding, he conceives things about Unbinding, he conceives things in Unbinding, he conceives things coming out of Unbinding, he conceives Unbinding as 'mine,' he delights in Unbinding. Why is that? Because he has not comprehended it, I tell you.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

"Brahma" above signifies the 1st rupa jhana. :meditate:

auto
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by auto » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:54 am

Pondera wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:15 am
One last ditch effort to share my wisdom with everyone here before I go.



That’s a manual for tranquility and pleasure and pain relief of all kind. I wrote it a few years back. Make of it what you will.

Namaste
You mention heart and colors, chakras, etc. When i start i don't have anything, no visuals no senses just black sitting and if i read instructions and should have to go and sit in a meditation position then i come sarcastic, dry and aware of me doing something no different than idk piling hay on a grass field.

You mentioned you broke mentally and discovered this method of yours,

That's what it is what i search. I need also to break mentally otherwise you are selling fishes instead of teaching how to fish. Anyone who could break mentally too can learn his/her own system.

Market is flooded, few wants to have sensations from connections or contact derived cultivation, like letting touch body inappropriately and then cultivating the feeligns what comes out of it to learn these feelings. Idk like randomly during an official talk i decide to pull down my pants(not dare to do it so what i have to do to muster enough courage override shame? etc), these kind of sensations i cultivate it lives up the name 'sensations'.
In short contact derived sensations, not what i am already contacted/prepared/had!
Anxiety comes out if i need to meet someone who i haven't seen a long time, i can't get away with the anxiety that easy, im noob so i actually need go through the events and gain intelligence and awareness.

What i want to point out is that there is a world layer its thicker than individual or solo practice in your own familiar secure spaces waht is for reflection mostly after fuking up a important life deciding meeting.


*not sure how to do practice without being initiated to said practice.

auto
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by auto » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:21 pm

budo wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:19 am
Pondera wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:17 am
one_awakening wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:56 am


People got criticized in this thread for just saying they occasionally enter the Jhanas.
It seems I am above criticism. People generally just ignore me. Which is fine. If anyone were to challenge me, I would smash their views into pieces. That’s not even the point. People simply want to realize the highest utmost for their own self - ie. they aren’t really interested in what anyone has to say about it (unless that person is an authority on the matter). Who am I. Just some random person who stumbled upon jhana and Nibbana out of necessity and suffering. No one cares. :( I’m a useless source of useless information as far as anyone cares.
The conceit is a sign that your actions do not align with your words and thus create doubt. I believed you until you wrote this message. An arahant has no conceit, and if you attained nibbana you would be an arahant.

In fact an arahant wouldn't care if anyone listened to them. I wouldn't care if people choose to smash their own toes with a hammer, I would ask them "Hey friend, are you aware that you are smashing your own toes with a hammer?" and if they told me to leave then I'd leave, because trying to convince them is stressful to me and I'm not interested in stress.
If you will master emotions then if someone cuts your toe then it will grow back.In lab you can grow anything from a stem cell. So the 5 powers or idk how many can be tested easy.

So that's just a gross example of MN Suttas, basically you infect yourself with antrax virus and it doesn't affect you that means you are pure from that type of bonds.

auto
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by auto » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:39 pm

budo wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:39 am
I'd like to discuss specifics so that we can help eachother master the jhanas. Maybe start a jhanas group as well.

- Are you able to enter the jhanas every time you sit down?
- If not, how often are you able to enter the jhanas? (Once day, week, month, etc..)
- What is the highest jhanas you've mastered?
- What method do you use?


As for me I use a combination of ayya khema/Leigh brasington, henepola gunaratana, and buddhadasa bhikkhu's methods.

The best run I had I was able to enter the first jhana every time I sat down, with a max at 4th jhana on rare days. This was last year. Lately though I am only able to enter the jhana once a week, due to switching over to mahasi vipassana, but now I will be returning to my old samadhi method and routine and hopefully can recover and return to the way things were last year.

I hope we can get a small community of jhana practioners going on, so we can learn from eachother.

Also please no off topic derailing and trolling if you're on this forum but don't follow Buddhism or jhanas

Thank you!
Jhana is practiced by certain type of people. Not me. I am following orders. If desire or urge rises i try solve it.

If i would do a breath practice with regular ventilation, that is dry, instead i come aware of breath occasionally and then do it, it is then i feel energy or internal breath and i switch to that breath and then i breath as usual.

If i would do a breathing practice then it is Me doing, there is doer and i gather that i need wait till i forget it and then come aware again and discern that i was gone. I discern that "I" was missing for a while.

Point is that "I" goes missing on throat or somewhere, there is a breath throat mind combo to replica that state without "I going missing". That is if urges are defeated you don't turn away from disgusting things or go to sleep if tired or quit working if feeling sick.

The I goes to head and into faculties. And through faculties you can start cultivate sense of self it gathers into heart and one day will rise and open the center of mind or something..

So i don't get when peopel say there is no self. Yes if self haven't rised/fell pass neck to open belly.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests