Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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budo
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Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by budo » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:39 am

I'd like to discuss specifics so that we can help eachother master the jhanas. Maybe start a jhanas group as well.

- Are you able to enter the jhanas every time you sit down?
- If not, how often are you able to enter the jhanas? (Once day, week, month, etc..)
- What is the highest jhanas you've mastered?
- What method do you use?


As for me I use a combination of ayya khema/Leigh brasington, henepola gunaratana, and buddhadasa bhikkhu's methods.

The best run I had I was able to enter the first jhana every time I sat down, with a max at 4th jhana on rare days. This was last year. Lately though I am only able to enter the jhana once a week, due to switching over to mahasi vipassana, but now I will be returning to my old samadhi method and routine and hopefully can recover and return to the way things were last year.

I hope we can get a small community of jhana practioners going on, so we can learn from eachother.

Also please no off topic derailing and trolling if you're on this forum but don't follow Buddhism or jhanas

Thank you!

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one_awakening
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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by one_awakening » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:25 am

I enter Jhanas probably about once a fortnight using mindfulness of breathing. The highest I've attained is fourth Jhana.

It gets a bit complicated because there's a difference between what is a Jhana according to the Suttas and what is a Jhana according to the Visuddhimagga. According to the Visuddhimagga, the Jhanas are a lot deeper than the Sutta Jhanas.
“You only lose what you cling to”

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:29 am

fourth jhāna respiration ceases; you both have achieved this?
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:53 am

- Are you able to enter the jhanas every time you sit down?
No
- If not, how often are you able to enter the jhanas? (Once day, week, month, etc..)
Never
- What is the highest jhanas you've mastered?
Mindfulnes. Sati
- What method do you use?
Satipathana
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by one_awakening » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:26 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:29 am
fourth jhāna respiration ceases; you both have achieved this?
This is the problem. What qualifies as Jhanas has kept changing over the centuries to mean deeper and deeper states, to the point where the Jhanas are almost unattainable according to some definitions.
“You only lose what you cling to”

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:03 am

"And I have also taught the step-by-step cessation of fabrications. When one has attained the first jhāna, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second jhāna, directed thought & evaluation have ceased. When one has attained the third jhāna, rapture has ceased. When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breathing has ceased. When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of space, the perception of forms has ceased...."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Pseudobabble » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:56 am

I'm training for it. I've attained first jhana twice, but my life is not in a calm enough state yet for me to achieve it repeatably.

The method I have used so far is anapanasati, but I am using a kasina these days, it seems to get me concentrated faster.

I'm definitely interested in a jhana group, also in sharing techniques, attitudes, etc
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:03 am
"And I have also taught the step-by-step cessation of fabrications. When one has attained the first jhāna, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second jhāna, directed thought & evaluation have ceased. When one has attained the third jhāna, rapture has ceased. When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breathing has ceased. When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of space, the perception of forms has ceased...."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Dhammarakkhito wrote: fourth jhāna respiration ceases; you both have achieved this?
Regardless of what the tradition says, regardless of how it appears to the meditator or outside observers, respiration does not cease. Deep meditation does not take you outside the realm of the possible.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:09 am

you then disagree with the buddha or dont believe this is what he said?
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by one_awakening » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:35 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:03 am
"When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breathing has ceased."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
I don't think The Buddha would recommend to cease breathing. I think what's being pointed to here is that breathing becomes so subtle that's it's imperceptible.
“You only lose what you cling to”

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:51 am

respiration does not cease.
You have to reconsider your opinion.
There was a lengthy discussion on this point.
==================

Question: If breathing ceases, the person will not have oxygen. How does a person live without oxygen?



viewtopic.php?f=44&t=16202
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Sobhana
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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Sobhana » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:52 am

I always enter the Vimalaramsi-jhanas, even when not doing formal meditation, but never the Paauk-jhanas. :thinking:

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:54 am

I always enter the Vimalaramsi-jhanas
Have you checked this with Sutta Jhana?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by budo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:59 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:29 am
fourth jhāna respiration ceases; you both have achieved this?
Yes, consistently. At least to the point where perception of breathing ceased, I don't have a machine hooked into me to confirm though. When I come out of jhanas I have to force myself to breath, I also have to make small movements first, if I make large movements it shocks my body, so I first open my eyes, then move my fingers, then hands, etc..

My theory is that when you're that still you do not require much oxygen and your body is getting "oxygenized" from the breathing meditation until it no longer needs oxygen.
Last edited by budo on Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by Sobhana » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:59 am

I do not want to derail this thread, but Sutta-Jhana is a nonsensical term.

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Re: Has anyone here mastered any of the jhanas?

Post by budo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:01 am

one_awakening wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:26 am
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:29 am
fourth jhāna respiration ceases; you both have achieved this?
This is the problem. What qualifies as Jhanas has kept changing over the centuries to mean deeper and deeper states, to the point where the Jhanas are almost unattainable according to some definitions.

Leigh Brasington does a good job and analysis of what the suttas expect from you in his book "Right Concentration".


Highly recommended.

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