Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:45 am

Greetings Saengnapha,
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:37 am
In samatha practice, analysis and reasoning are not engaged in.
I see where you're going, but I don't totally agree.

Samatha, and progress through jhanas, is a gradual cessation or tranquilizing of various factors. The suttas explain what factors are abandoned at each jhana.

I doubt I would be able to find the sutta I'm thinking of (in the absence of any unique keywords) but the suttas explain that whilst in [x] jhana, there is an awareness that [x] jhana is comparatively gross and unrefined compared to [x+1] jhana. Knowing this, the yogi abandons the factors in [x] jhana, which are not present in [x+1] jhana.

This knowing, is arguably the product of "analysis and reasoning". Perhaps you may feel more comfortable with it, if it were called paññā?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:50 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:45 am
.

Samatha, and progress through jhanas, is a gradual cessation or tranquilizing of various factors. The suttas explain what factors are abandoned at each jhana.

I doubt I would be able to find the sutta I'm thinking of (in the absence of any unique keywords) but the suttas explain that whilst in [x] jhana, there is an awareness that [x] jhana is comparatively gross and unrefined compared to [x+1] jhana. Knowing this, the yogi abandons the factors in [x] jhana, which are not present in [x+1] jhana.

...
Here is one example.

MN 111. One by One.

https://suttacentral.net/mn111/en/sujato


Mike

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:53 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:50 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:45 am
.

Samatha, and progress through jhanas, is a gradual cessation or tranquilizing of various factors. The suttas explain what factors are abandoned at each jhana.

I doubt I would be able to find the sutta I'm thinking of (in the absence of any unique keywords) but the suttas explain that whilst in [x] jhana, there is an awareness that [x] jhana is comparatively gross and unrefined compared to [x+1] jhana. Knowing this, the yogi abandons the factors in [x] jhana, which are not present in [x+1] jhana.

...
Here is one example.

MN 111. One by One.

https://suttacentral.net/mn111/en/sujato


Mike
a very good example of the progression!

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:13 am

Greetings Mike,

That's the one.

Thanks.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:27 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:37 am

This is where we seem to go off on many tangents as to what right effort, dliigence, and striving really mean. This discussion is posted in the Samatha topic. The practice of samatha is about the focus on a meditation object such as the breath. When you focus on the breath, you begin to draw in the attention away from exterior phenomenon and into the body, with the breath as the main focus. It is not about the stopping of thinking although that does tend to happen. What tends to happen is one of two things. Either the attention gets lost in thinking and forgets about the breath or the attention tends to fixate on feelings or some other internal phenomena. Moving the attention back to the breath is not about a rigid concentration and an attempt to either stop thinking or forcing the attention back to the breath. It is simply a relaxation out of an habitual activity like thinking and back on the breath, again and again, until there is a relaxed focus and balance of body, feeling, and the mental processes. This culminates in jhana and samadhi. It is not about analysis and reasoning. In samatha practice, analysis and reasoning are not engaged in. But, this does not lead to real wisdom as satipatthana practice does. Samatha is about calming the citta, the agitation. Penetrating insight comes later through satipatthana and the analysis and reasoning that is possible with equanimity present as its basis.
I'm quite happy about tangents, providing we mean that there are different approaches, rather than there being one "correct" approach to which others are tangentially related. The account of samatha practice you give is certainly common (the local monks in the Forest Tradition teach little else regarding samatha, for example) but it is not the only one, nor are other practices proscribed in the canon. The Samatha Sutta, for example, gives this:
if, by such self-examination, he knows: ‘I gain the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena but not internal serenity of mind,’ he should base himself on the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena and make an effort to gain internal serenity of mind. Then, some time later, he gains both the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena and internal serenity of mind.
https://suttacentral.net/an10.54/en/bodhi

There doesn't seem to be any instruction about how this effort should be restricted to maintaining mere awareness of the breath. It depends of course on what is meant by "analysis and reasoning", but providing this does not go so far as to include something ridiculous like the construction of formal syllogisms, etc., I can't see anything here or elsewhere which precludes analysis and reasoning. In the passage about removing distracting thoughts I quoted earlier, the activities are recommended for one intent on adhicitta: which can either mean "higher thought" (i.e. suitable for insight) or simply "concentration". It is often teamed up with adhisila and adhipanna, which seems to imply that it is about concentration rather than anything else.

So although I wouldn't disagree with a particular interpretation of what samatha practice is, and I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from following it if it works, I wouldn't be certain that samatha practice is only ever what you describe. I would need evidence from suttas for that, and I currently believe that that terms used are too vague and the detailed instruction is lacking.

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:28 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:50 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:45 am
.

Samatha, and progress through jhanas, is a gradual cessation or tranquilizing of various factors. The suttas explain what factors are abandoned at each jhana.

I doubt I would be able to find the sutta I'm thinking of (in the absence of any unique keywords) but the suttas explain that whilst in [x] jhana, there is an awareness that [x] jhana is comparatively gross and unrefined compared to [x+1] jhana. Knowing this, the yogi abandons the factors in [x] jhana, which are not present in [x+1] jhana.

...
Here is one example.

MN 111. One by One.

https://suttacentral.net/mn111/en/sujato


Mike
Mike, here is a comparison of Nanamoli/Bh. Bodhi translation of the first jhana in this sutta and followed by Sujato's.

“3. “Here, bhikkhus, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, Sāriputta entered upon and abided in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion.
 
4. “And the states in the first jhāna—the applied thought, the sustained thought, the rapture, the pleasure, and the unification of mind; the contact, feeling, perception, volition, and mind; the zeal, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention—these states were defined by him one by one as they occurred; known to him those states arose, known they were present, known they disappeared. He understood thus: ‘So indeed, these states, not having been, come into being; having been, they vanish.’ Regarding those states, he abided unattracted, unrepelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind rid of barriers. He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond,’ and with the cultivation of that [attainment], he confirmed that there is.”


Sujato's:

Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, he entered and remained in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. And he distinguished the phenomena in the first absorption one by one: placing and keeping and rapture and bliss and unification of mind; contact, feeling, perception, intention, mind, enthusiasm, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and focus. He knew those phenomena as they arose, as they remained, and as they went away. He understood: ‘So it seems that these phenomena, not having been, come to be; and having come to be, they flit away.’ And he meditated without attraction or repulsion for those phenomena; independent, untied, liberated, detached, his mind free of limits. He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond.’ And by repeated practice he knew for sure that there is.

Mike, the first thing I notice is the odd word selection of Sujato's translation and the use of a term like 'placing the mind and keeping it connected'. English is my native language and I have no idea what this means. I can surmise, but I cannot be sure. Nanamoli translates as 'accompanied by applied and sustained thought'. This is understandable in plain English and goes along with definitions of vitakka and vicara as an accompaniment to the first jhana.

Can you understand why I am so critical of some of these translations and how much varying interpretation they can promote?

Mike, what do you think Sujato means by 'placing the mind'? Is this an 'Aussie' thing? lol.

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:00 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:27 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:37 am

This is where we seem to go off on many tangents as to what right effort, dliigence, and striving really mean. This discussion is posted in the Samatha topic. The practice of samatha is about the focus on a meditation object such as the breath. When you focus on the breath, you begin to draw in the attention away from exterior phenomenon and into the body, with the breath as the main focus. It is not about the stopping of thinking although that does tend to happen. What tends to happen is one of two things. Either the attention gets lost in thinking and forgets about the breath or the attention tends to fixate on feelings or some other internal phenomena. Moving the attention back to the breath is not about a rigid concentration and an attempt to either stop thinking or forcing the attention back to the breath. It is simply a relaxation out of an habitual activity like thinking and back on the breath, again and again, until there is a relaxed focus and balance of body, feeling, and the mental processes. This culminates in jhana and samadhi. It is not about analysis and reasoning. In samatha practice, analysis and reasoning are not engaged in. But, this does not lead to real wisdom as satipatthana practice does. Samatha is about calming the citta, the agitation. Penetrating insight comes later through satipatthana and the analysis and reasoning that is possible with equanimity present as its basis.
I'm quite happy about tangents, providing we mean that there are different approaches, rather than there being one "correct" approach to which others are tangentially related. The account of samatha practice you give is certainly common (the local monks in the Forest Tradition teach little else regarding samatha, for example) but it is not the only one, nor are other practices proscribed in the canon. The Samatha Sutta, for example, gives this:
if, by such self-examination, he knows: ‘I gain the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena but not internal serenity of mind,’ he should base himself on the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena and make an effort to gain internal serenity of mind. Then, some time later, he gains both the higher wisdom of insight into phenomena and internal serenity of mind.
https://suttacentral.net/an10.54/en/bodhi

There doesn't seem to be any instruction about how this effort should be restricted to maintaining mere awareness of the breath. It depends of course on what is meant by "analysis and reasoning", but providing this does not go so far as to include something ridiculous like the construction of formal syllogisms, etc., I can't see anything here or elsewhere which precludes analysis and reasoning. In the passage about removing distracting thoughts I quoted earlier, the activities are recommended for one intent on adhicitta: which can either mean "higher thought" (i.e. suitable for insight) or simply "concentration". It is often teamed up with adhisila and adhipanna, which seems to imply that it is about concentration rather than anything else.

So although I wouldn't disagree with a particular interpretation of what samatha practice is, and I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from following it if it works, I wouldn't be certain that samatha practice is only ever what you describe. I would need evidence from suttas for that, and I currently believe that that terms used are too vague and the detailed instruction is lacking.
Sam Vara, certainly I'm not against discussion of tangents. In this case, we are in the samatha section of this site. How are the 5 Hindrances related to the practice of samatha? There are no instructions by anyone that I know of concerning these two specific things. Of course, there is always a way of connecting unrelated topics but why here? It seems discussion about the 5 Hindrances should be done in a different section, not in the Samatha Bhavana.

The Anupada Sutta(I incorrectly said Samatha Sutta) MN111, as Mike posted, is a good one and outlines the progression and delineation of the stages of jhana. This is a long, hard, road. Many masters of many Buddhist traditions teach that it is only by special insight that one is really awakened, not through the stages of jhana and samatha. This doesn't make jhana and samatha worthless. The re-orientation toward satipatthana and the 'knowing' of one's state is the route that many great Buddhist masters have talked about throughout the ages. This kind of special insight cuts through. Once you have a moment of this, doubt is gone. That is the beginning of seeing. Seeing what? Seeing that you are not this 'person' who has a body and a mind.

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:32 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:00 am

Sam Vara, certainly I'm not against discussion of tangents. In this case, we are in the samatha section of this site. How are the 5 Hindrances related to the practice of samatha? There are no instructions by anyone that I know of concerning these two specific things. Of course, there is always a way of connecting unrelated topics but why here? It seems discussion about the 5 Hindrances should be done in a different section, not in the Samatha Bhavana.
Here's how I see them as being related: the hindrances are what hinder the develoment of samatha. As Nyanaponika says,
Many are the obstacles which block the road to spiritual progress, but there are
five in particular which, under the name of hindrances (nivarana), are often
mentioned in the Buddhist scriptures:
1. Sensual desire (kamacchanda),
2. Ill-will (byapada),
3. Sloth and torpor (thina-middha),
4. Restlessness and remorse (uddhacca-kukkucca),
5. Sceptical doubt (vicikiccha).
They are called "hindrances" because they hinder and envelop the mind in many
ways, obstructing its development (bhavana). According to the Buddhist
teachings, spiritual development is twofold: through tranquillity
(samatha-bhavana) and through insight (vipassana-bhavana). Tranquillity is
gained by complete concentration of the mind during the meditative absorptions
(jhana). For achieving these absorptions, the overcoming of the five hindrances,
at least temporarily, is a preliminary condition. It is especially in the context of
achieving the absorptions that the Buddha often mentions the five hindrances in
his discourses.
http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/ ... n85857.pdf

Alternatively, here is Gunaratana on the same topic:
The various subjects and methods of meditation expounded in the Theravada Buddhist scriptures — the Pali canon and its commentaries — divide into two inter-related systems. One is called the development of serenity (samathabhavana), the other the development of insight (vipassanabhavana). The former also goes under the name of development of concentration (samadhibhavana)...Pivotal to both systems of meditation, though belonging inherently to the side of serenity, is a set of meditative attainments called the jhanas....To attain the jhanas, the meditator must begin by eliminating the unwholesome mental states obstructing inner collectedness, generally grouped together as the five hindrances (pañcanivarana): sensual desire, ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and worry and doubt.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el351.html

There are many other sets of instructions and explanations which make a similar link, including personal instruction I have had. So I don't see the two topics as at all unrelated - quite the opposite, that it is very difficult to talk about samatha or jhana without referring to the hindrances - although if anyone wants to kee them separate then that is their choice. As far as I am concerned, this is the correct section for discussing the hindrances.

Your second paragraph seems to be about the superiority of insight/satipatthana over other types of practice. You may well be right, but it's not really the point I'm making here.

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:04 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:32 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:00 am

Sam Vara, certainly I'm not against discussion of tangents. In this case, we are in the samatha section of this site. How are the 5 Hindrances related to the practice of samatha? There are no instructions by anyone that I know of concerning these two specific things. Of course, there is always a way of connecting unrelated topics but why here? It seems discussion about the 5 Hindrances should be done in a different section, not in the Samatha Bhavana.
Here's how I see them as being related: the hindrances are what hinder the develoment of samatha. As Nyanaponika says,
Many are the obstacles which block the road to spiritual progress, but there are
five in particular which, under the name of hindrances (nivarana), are often
mentioned in the Buddhist scriptures:
1. Sensual desire (kamacchanda),
2. Ill-will (byapada),
3. Sloth and torpor (thina-middha),
4. Restlessness and remorse (uddhacca-kukkucca),
5. Sceptical doubt (vicikiccha).
They are called "hindrances" because they hinder and envelop the mind in many
ways, obstructing its development (bhavana). According to the Buddhist
teachings, spiritual development is twofold: through tranquillity
(samatha-bhavana) and through insight (vipassana-bhavana). Tranquillity is
gained by complete concentration of the mind during the meditative absorptions
(jhana). For achieving these absorptions, the overcoming of the five hindrances,
at least temporarily, is a preliminary condition. It is especially in the context of
achieving the absorptions that the Buddha often mentions the five hindrances in
his discourses.
http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/ ... n85857.pdf

Alternatively, here is Gunaratana on the same topic:
The various subjects and methods of meditation expounded in the Theravada Buddhist scriptures — the Pali canon and its commentaries — divide into two inter-related systems. One is called the development of serenity (samathabhavana), the other the development of insight (vipassanabhavana). The former also goes under the name of development of concentration (samadhibhavana)...Pivotal to both systems of meditation, though belonging inherently to the side of serenity, is a set of meditative attainments called the jhanas....To attain the jhanas, the meditator must begin by eliminating the unwholesome mental states obstructing inner collectedness, generally grouped together as the five hindrances (pañcanivarana): sensual desire, ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and worry and doubt.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el351.html

There are many other sets of instructions and explanations which make a similar link, including personal instruction I have had. So I don't see the two topics as at all unrelated - quite the opposite, that it is very difficult to talk about samatha or jhana without referring to the hindrances - although if anyone wants to kee them separate then that is their choice. As far as I am concerned, this is the correct section for discussing the hindrances.

Your second paragraph seems to be about the superiority of insight/satipatthana over other types of practice. You may well be right, but it's not really the point I'm making here.
The 5 Hindrances and samatha practice are related. But, so is everything else about the Buddhist teaching. We learn what the 5 Hindrances are as part of an outline of study/philosophy to develop the conceptual understanding of what Buddhism is all about. The practice of samatha is a contemplative activity that is involved with letting go of conceptual ideas and harmonizing the body/mind which is also called equanimity or samadhi. It is a different activity than study and reading suttas. One doesn't sit and think about suttas during jhanas. Maybe some do, but you don't progress as the Anupada sutta describes. This is not to say that there is no place for study or reflection. Samatha and Vipassana practice takes that study and actualizes it using awareness, mindfulness, etc. Insight is not an inference or conceptual conclusion but a direct knowing of experience.

Personally, I'm not against the discussion of these topics in the same thread, but it is the application of these practices skillfully done that really make the difference, not the intellectual discussion. These should be discussed with a teacher, optimally.

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:04 pm

The 5 Hindrances and samatha practice are related. But, so is everything else about the Buddhist teaching.
Of course. But, as the two quotes given above show, they are according to some methods of teaching very closely related. Ajahn Thiradammo, for example, teaches that concentration practice is essentially identifying the dominant nivarana and then applying the most appropriate antidote. When the hindrances are present, you don't have samatha; conversely, when you have samatha, then there are no hindrances.

We learn what the 5 Hindrances are as part of an outline of study/philosophy to develop the conceptual understanding of what Buddhism is all about.


Do we? You might well have learnt that, but I didn't. I learnt about the hindrances in a practical sense as the mental tendencies or activities that prevent our meditation giving rise to instant tranquillity. It's just a different way of doing things.
The practice of samatha is a contemplative activity that is involved with letting go of conceptual ideas and harmonizing the body/mind which is also called equanimity or samadhi.
The same applies. You might have learnt it that way, but my experience was more about dealing with hindrances. Contemplative, certainly, but nevertheless possibly involving the identification and alleviation of hindrances. The Buddha doesn't seem to have left definitive instructions as to how these things are best to be done. If there is a sutta detailing how one approach is wrong and the other right, or some other compelling evidence, I would be happy to change my position on this.
It is a different activity than study and reading suttas. One doesn't sit and think about suttas during jhanas
No, I don't think anybody ever claimed one does. Studying and reading suttas is very different from undertaking mental activities that one has acquired through reading suttas. One would do nothing at all as a Buddhist without the understanding of suttas, and meditation is no different. And this isn't about what one does during jhanas, but about what one does in order to bring those jhanas about.
Personally, I'm not against the discussion of these topics in the same thread, but it is the application of these practices skillfully done that really make the difference, not the intellectual discussion. These should be discussed with a teacher, optimally.
Well, the same applies to all aspects of the Dhamma, doesn't it? Being moral beats talking about morality, having insights beats discussion of what insight is, and talking about meditation is less useful than the actual time on the cushion. Unless you can directly beam your jhana-experiences into my mind, then here on DW the intellectual discussion is all people are going to get. I think people understand that, though.

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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:11 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:28 am
Mike, the first thing I notice is the odd word selection of Sujato's translation and the use of a term like 'placing the mind and keeping it connected'. English is my native language and I have no idea what this means. I can surmise, but I cannot be sure. Nanamoli translates as 'accompanied by applied and sustained thought'. This is understandable in plain English and goes along with definitions of vitakka and vicara as an accompaniment to the first jhana.
If you like the translation "applied and sustained thought", that's fine. It seems to me to be a hangover from old translations.
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:28 am
Can you understand why I am so critical of some of these translations and how much varying interpretation they can promote?
Well, you seem have a different interetation of many things than what I am used to...
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:28 am
Mike, what do you think Sujato means by 'placing the mind'? Is this an 'Aussie' thing? lol.
I don't know about is being an "Aussie thing". I'm from New Zealand. :tongue:

The expression that Sujato uses:
while placing the mind and keeping it connected.
Is does sound a little clumsy, but it describes how many teachers and commentators understand vitakka and vicara, as placing the mind on the meditation object, and sustaining that application.

:heart:
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Re: Seeing the hindrances as stress, helps the mind let go of them

Post by auto » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:28 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:37 am

This is where we seem to go off on many tangents as to what right effort, dliigence, and striving really mean. This discussion is posted in the Samatha topic. The practice of samatha is about the focus on a meditation object such as the breath. When you focus on the breath, you begin to draw in the attention away from exterior phenomenon and into the body, with the breath as the main focus. It is not about the stopping of thinking although that does tend to happen. What tends to happen is one of two things. Either the attention gets lost in thinking and forgets about the breath or the attention tends to fixate on feelings or some other internal phenomena. Moving the attention back to the breath is not about a rigid concentration and an attempt to either stop thinking or forcing the attention back to the breath. It is simply a relaxation out of an habitual activity like thinking and back on the breath, again and again, until there is a relaxed focus and balance of body, feeling, and the mental processes. This culminates in jhana and samadhi. It is not about analysis and reasoning. In samatha practice, analysis and reasoning are not engaged in. But, this does not lead to real wisdom as satipatthana practice does. Samatha is about calming the citta, the agitation. Penetrating insight comes later through satipatthana and the analysis and reasoning that is possible with equanimity present as its basis.
Samantha is tranquilization of mind. If you sit then there rises hindrances, what try to force you to do things instead of sitting. There is energy imbalance what you need balance from your side.
So how it is that before it is so nice and easy to sit, but after a while it is storm. There is fundametal difference, i don't go sit to eliminate hindrances, they will arise during a sit.
The OP long quote there, if you are endowed by virtue then you will be mindful of the fore, fore is what is written on that second paragraph there.

The tranquil state is the version of the peace what is after the storm, and you won't wait it till storm subsides, you switch to the other side by magga phala.
The concentration what comes is you can use any sensation what arises from an object as a concentration. Not like you look at object and call it concetration, that is kamma nimitta, the very start. Sensation is a concetration itself or may i say concentrated.

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