Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

[thepea]

This says nothing. I know one monk who was the one you are describing here. He disrobed after 10 years.

I guess not )

I wasn’t arguing the fact that monks are not perfect, I realize this and have no expectation of this for them.
My point is that mr Goenka was a saintly person with high attainments, and knew what he was preaching with regard to jhanas and the path in general. I say this because of my own experiences and the way they line up with both Goenka s and sutta instructions. The few monks who were supported by this vihara and allowed to teach and who had such a distaste for Goenka led me to conclude that there is no continuity within monastic community, at least this has been my experience.

I don’t know what you mean by “I guess not.” This seems to fit with my sutta and experience of understanding and also what learned from Goenka talks.
You have made some comments of Goenka being far from Buddha’s teaching and mahasi being a bit closer these are techniques from Burma. The vihara I visited for years is srilanken based and I met many people there that also disagreed with goenka teachings.
I’m trying to understand this difference in practice and why they do not feel Goenka s technique is what Buddha taught. Like I said I think there are many methods to get to the point where you can observe 3 characteristics and at this point those different traditions culminate in a similar fashion.
I’ve noticed many people scoffing at the mention of wisdom, “ you need to get jhana first” and they don’t seem to feel you can get jhana without becoming a monk and they revere monks and give up practice themselves and give fruit and drinks to a statue.
If anything smells like a cult it is an organization that promotes this type of behaviour, and I notice people at Goenka centres all working and practicing well and doing jhanas, and then this organization taking a lot of heat and being accused as a cult.

[User1249x]

I also once asked a monk about his thoughts on Nanavira, to which he replied that once a picture was show to a big Ajahn, a picture of Nanavira, the Ajahn concluded with saying that "His mind is dark as night" or "black as night" and that was that for his thoughts on the matter.

Not that i hold NV in highest regard but i think it is inappropriate to say such things about people, especially monks or people who try to give up attachment in general.

I still got good info from that monk about his methods and gains, so i think one should see past aversion ideally and extract value.

[auto]

Yes, if you just reach jhana and do nothing, you'll reborn in corresponding rupa-realm. But for a buddhist jhana is a must-have tool for insight.


“There is a path, Ānanda, a way to the abandoning of the five lower fetters; that anyone, without relying on that path, on that way, shall know or see or abandon the five lower fetters — this is not possible. “And what, Ānanda, is the path, the way to the abandoning of the five lower fetters? Here... bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhāna... fourth jhana... Whatever exists therein of material form, feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness, he sees those states as impermanent, as suffering, as a disease, as a tumour, as a barb, as a calamity, as an affliction, as alien, as disintegrating, as void, as not self. He turns his mind away from those states and directs it towards the deathless element thus: ‘This is the peaceful, this is the sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna.’ If he is steady in that, he attains the destruction of the taints. But if he does not attain the destruction of the taints because of that desire for the Dhamma, that delight in the Dhamma, then with the destruction of the five lower fetters he becomes one due to reappear spontaneously in the Pure Abodes and there attain final Nibbāna without ever returning from that world. This is the path, the way to the abandoning of the five lower fetters.

it is mahayana.

[Zom]

it is mahayana.

It is MN 64 -)

[Saengnapha]

it is mahayana.

It is MN 64 -)

How many fetters have disappeared for you, Zom?

[auto]

it is mahayana.

It is MN 64 -)

ok,
Fetters are indicatiors of failure. While you are doing something then identity view, doubt, clinging to rules, ill will are signs you are enslaved.