Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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SarathW
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Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by SarathW » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm

From another post by Zom:

So far I don't know anyone who genuinely attain it and could sit for a very long time (except one person from Nepal but the situation with him is very controversial by now). There are many who teach, but again, I've never seen and never heard that any of these teachers could do this simple thing: sit for many hours in one posture without any trouble. Let's say: sit at 8 am and get up at 8 pm. Why? Obviously because jhana is a superhuman ability and there aren't many people in the world with superhuman abilities. 8-)

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=31112#p455330a

=============
I know that Zom is a very experienced and knowledgeable person but I am not sure whether above statement is correct.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

2600htz
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by 2600htz » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:59 pm

Hello:

You will get all kind of answers regarding how long does it take to attain jhana, but there is no direct correlation between time you sit and the cleansing of defilements.

Regards.

auto
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by auto » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:28 pm

will try it.

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DNS
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by DNS » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:34 pm

Typically such insights or attainments happen on retreats when one can practice for long periods of 12 hours or so. But it doesn't have to be that way; there is no set minimum time requirement as far as I know. Theoretically a very good practitioner could enter jhana at ease, but one would no doubt have plenty of prior experience to do that.

It can be less difficult to sit for long periods if you are very flexible. There are some exercises you can do to increase flexibility; stretches, yoga, martial arts, etc.

auto
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by auto » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:42 pm

if you are free from world, you are aware of your hands, feel them. There is no forgetting, high forced attentive awareness, i think it is hard to get pass 10 seconds. But i will try.
--
Point is there is so many things to take into account, that like my heart beats then my body also get affected by that beat and moves.

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DNS
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by DNS » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:46 pm

By sheer coincidence (looking for a good passage to post on Dharma Paths), I found this passage from Therigatha:
Four times, five, I ran amok from my dwelling, having gained no peace of awareness, my thoughts out of control. So I went to a trustworthy nun. She taught me the Dhamma: aggregates, sense spheres, & elements. Hearing the Dhamma, I did as she said. For seven days I sat in one spot, absorbed in rapture & bliss. On the eighth, I stretched out my legs, having burst the mass of darkness.
Thi 3.2 Uttama

The bhikkhuni Uttama sat for 7 days in one spot! :bow:

auto
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by auto » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:16 am

DNS wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:46 pm
By sheer coincidence (looking for a good passage to post on Dharma Paths), I found this passage from Therigatha:
Four times, five, I ran amok from my dwelling, having gained no peace of awareness, my thoughts out of control. So I went to a trustworthy nun. She taught me the Dhamma: aggregates, sense spheres, & elements. Hearing the Dhamma, I did as she said. For seven days I sat in one spot, absorbed in rapture & bliss. On the eighth, I stretched out my legs, having burst the mass of darkness.
Thi 3.2 Uttama

The bhikkhuni Uttama sat for 7 days in one spot! :bow:
ok, no excuses what ever could be this, but you defenetly doesn't need to sit 7 days if you can do it with lesser. So i don't get it why to cherish persons who sit so long?

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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by DNS » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:25 am

auto wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:16 am
ok, no excuses what ever could be this, but you defenetly doesn't need to sit 7 days if you can do it with lesser. So i don't get it why to cherish persons who sit so long?
Yes, I agree it could probably be done in less time for jhanas. In that passage she was describing her jhanas and then enlightenment attainment, so definitely she is worthy of praise.

chownah
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by chownah » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:57 am

Is sitting the only posture allowed for attaining jhana?
chownah

SarathW
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by SarathW » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:31 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:57 am
Is sitting the only posture allowed for attaining jhana?
chownah
Good point.
I think only description for first Jhana is it consist of Jhana factors.
ie: Vitakka Vicara (wholesome),Pithy, Sukaha, and Ekagata for first Jhana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Saengnapha
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:45 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm
From another post by Zom:

So far I don't know anyone who genuinely attain it and could sit for a very long time (except one person from Nepal but the situation with him is very controversial by now). There are many who teach, but again, I've never seen and never heard that any of these teachers could do this simple thing: sit for many hours in one posture without any trouble. Let's say: sit at 8 am and get up at 8 pm. Why? Obviously because jhana is a superhuman ability and there aren't many people in the world with superhuman abilities. 8-)

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=31112#p455330a

=============
I know that Zom is a very experienced and knowledgeable person but I am not sure whether above statement is correct.
It can really save on your food, electricity, water, and other expenses each month. :D

Garrib
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by Garrib » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:00 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:45 am
SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 pm
From another post by Zom:

So far I don't know anyone who genuinely attain it and could sit for a very long time (except one person from Nepal but the situation with him is very controversial by now). There are many who teach, but again, I've never seen and never heard that any of these teachers could do this simple thing: sit for many hours in one posture without any trouble. Let's say: sit at 8 am and get up at 8 pm. Why? Obviously because jhana is a superhuman ability and there aren't many people in the world with superhuman abilities. 8-)

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=31112#p455330a

=============
I know that Zom is a very experienced and knowledgeable person but I am not sure whether above statement is correct.
It can really save on your food, electricity, water, and other expenses each month. :D
Yes --- Attaining jhanas seems like one of the most eco friendly, minimalist thing you could possibly do!

auto
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by auto » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:01 pm

DNS wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:25 am
auto wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:16 am
ok, no excuses what ever could be this, but you defenetly doesn't need to sit 7 days if you can do it with lesser. So i don't get it why to cherish persons who sit so long?
Yes, I agree it could probably be done in less time for jhanas. In that passage she was describing her jhanas and then enlightenment attainment, so definitely she is worthy of praise.
Yes. There is the logical fallacy when not take into account the opposite version. Not symmetry but the part what is against the worldly way and not seen. And original post is good example of it.

2600htz
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by 2600htz » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:26 pm

chownah wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:57 am
Is sitting the only posture allowed for attaining jhana?
chownah
Hello:

AN 3.63
With the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous passing away of joy and dejection, I enter and dwell in the fourth jhāna, neither painful nor pleasant, which has purification of mindfulness by equanimity.

“Then, brahmin, when I am in such a state, if I walk back and forth, on that occasion my walking back and forth is celestial. If I am standing, on that occasion my standing is celestial. If I am sitting, on that occasion my sitting is celestial. If I lie down, on that occasion this is my celestial high and luxurious bed. This is that celestial high and luxurious bed that at present I can gain at will, without trouble or difficulty.”
Regards.

chownah
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by chownah » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:34 pm

I guess then that sitting for 12 hours is not required.
chownah

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