How to reach the 1st Jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
pegembara
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by pegembara » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:36 am

I think the idea is to achieve a degree of stillness for this reason.
This is a metaphor for life and a metaphor to understand your real mind – which is naturally still – like a clear forest pool.

In life, many weird and wonderful people of all kinds will come into your life and go away back into their own lives – just like the many wonderful, rare animals that come to drink at the pool and then go off to do their own thing.

You are just sitting there quiet and still, beside the pool – observing all this. Your mind is like this too – your awareness observes all the comings and goings of all the wonderful people and animals that enter and go out of your life.

Yet your mind itself does not come and go with them – it just is naturally there, still, observing, letting things flow in and letting them flow out of themselves.

So in meditation too – you observe your thoughts coming into and going out of your mind. So you just allow them to flow in and out of your mind naturally. You just allow them to do their thing – just like you just allow the animals to do whatever the want to do in front of you at the clear forest pool.

So thoughts come into your mind and go out of your mind. Yet that which is aware of those thoughts, does not come and go with them, does it? It neither comes nor goes. It just observes. The awareness doesn’t move – only the things that appear before it move about. It is just naturally still, silent, naturally watching and aware.

Ajahn Chah
45. "Suppose there were a pool of water — sullied, turbid, and muddy. A man with good eyesight standing there on the bank would not see shells, gravel, and pebbles, or shoals of fish swimming about and resting. Why is that? Because of the sullied nature of the water. In the same way, that a monk with a sullied mind would know his own benefit, the benefit of others, the benefit of both; that he would realize a superior human state, a truly noble distinction of knowledge & vision: Such a thing is impossible. Why is that? Because of the sullied nature of his mind."

46. "Suppose there were a pool of water — clear, limpid, and unsullied. A man with good eyesight standing there on the bank would see shells, gravel, & pebbles, and also shoals of fish swimming about and resting. Why is that? Because of the unsullied nature of the water. In the same way, that a monk with an unsullied mind would know his own benefit, the benefit of others, the benefit of both; that he would realize a superior human state, a truly noble distinction of knowledge & vision: Such a thing is possible. Why is that? Because of the unsullied nature of his mind."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

pegembara
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by pegembara » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:48 am

This may also be relevant- Samatha yoked with vipassana.
"Monks, these are the four developments of concentration. Which four? There is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now. There is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the attainment of knowledge & vision. There is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness. There is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents.

"And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now.

"And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents? There is the case where a monk remains focused on arising & falling away with reference to the five clinging-aggregates: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is feeling, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is perception, such its origination, such its passing away. Such are fabrications, such their origination, such their passing away. Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.' This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"The individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness, but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, should approach an individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment and ask him: 'How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'Fabrications should be regarded in this way. Fabrications should be investigated in this way. Fabrications should be seen in this way with insight.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"As for the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquillity of awareness, he should approach an individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way. The mind should be made to settle down in this way. The mind should be unified in this way. The mind should be concentrated in this way.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

auto
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by auto » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:02 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:03 am
Sorry, but I can't understand what you are talking about.
Human body, the sense organs, internal organs, brain, pathway/communication systems.

What is being present, where it belongs?

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Modus.Ponens » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:46 pm

Ayya Khema explains this topic, as well as many of the important insights from jhana practice.

http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/334/talk/7871/
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

Caodemarte
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Caodemarte » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:52 pm

Zom wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:45 pm
.... I've never seen and never heard that any of these teachers could do this simple thing: sit for many hours in one posture without any trouble. Let's say: sit at 8 am and get up at 8 pm. Why? Obviously because jhana is a superhuman ability and there aren't many people in the world with superhuman abilities. 8-)
I have met such people. It is not a superhuman ability or that rare. Long sits like this are rare, but part of standard training for “advanced” monks across several Buddhist traditions. Jhana can be a useful tool, but as a temporary state it is not the ultimate goal of Buddhism.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Pseudobabble » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:56 am

Nwad wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:42 pm

How to do it?
Read and follow this book. It has been highly effective for me.

Please bear in mind this is something that will require dedicated daily practice, with sessions of 45 minutes minimum, and continual mindfulness throughout the day.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Nwad
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Nwad » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:29 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:56 am
Nwad wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:42 pm

How to do it?
Read and follow this book. It has been highly effective for me.

Please bear in mind this is something that will require dedicated daily practice, with sessions of 45 minutes minimum, and continual mindfulness throughout the day.
Thank you Pseudo :)
This book not goes against Bouddha teachings?

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Pseudobabble
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Pseudobabble » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:34 am

Nwad wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:29 am
Pseudobabble wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:56 am
Nwad wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:42 pm

How to do it?
Read and follow this book. It has been highly effective for me.

Please bear in mind this is something that will require dedicated daily practice, with sessions of 45 minutes minimum, and continual mindfulness throughout the day.
Thank you Pseudo :)
This book not goes against Bouddha teachings?
No I don't think it goes against the Buddha's teachings.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:20 am

Nwad wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:29 am
Pseudobabble wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:56 am
Nwad wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:42 pm

How to do it?
Read and follow this book. It has been highly effective for me.

Please bear in mind this is something that will require dedicated daily practice, with sessions of 45 minutes minimum, and continual mindfulness throughout the day.
Thank you Pseudo :)
This book not goes against Bouddha teachings?
Culadasa is a lay buddhist teacher. He has some videos no YouTube. The videos I watched were good.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Zom
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Zom » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:45 am

I have met such people.
Have you personally observed them sitting for 10+ hours without movement in one place? Because without that this is not a proof, no matter what one says.
Jhana can be a useful tool, but as a temporary state it is not the ultimate goal of Buddhism.
Jhana is a must-have tool for the ultimate goal of Buddhism. Again, MN 64.

Caodemarte
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Caodemarte » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:38 pm

Zom wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:45 am
I have met such people.
Have you personally observed them sitting for 10+ hours without movement in one place? Because without that this is not a proof, no matter what one says.
Jhana can be a useful tool, but as a temporary state it is not the ultimate goal of Buddhism.
Jhana is a must-have tool for the ultimate goal of Buddhism. Again, MN 64.
Being alive is a must have tool for the ultimate goal of Buddhism. It is not a superhuman ability. Samadhi or jhana can be helpful. They are not superhuman abilities. You can be in such a state in any of the four postures, but neither being alive or such temporary states leads inevitably to liberation. Being a samadhi or jhana junkie is not helpful.

Long sitting stays in jhana, even in Hindu or other non-Buddhist traditions, can be observed if you stand in front of a meditator who uses such periods and wait. I can’t imagine anybody being that interested. if you go on a retreat you will likely find people who ignore the rest periods and sit continually for long periods (you can check in on them occasionally to see that they are still sitting).

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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Zom » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:20 pm

Being alive is a must have tool for the ultimate goal of Buddhism. It is not a superhuman ability. Samadhi or jhana can be helpful. They are not superhuman abilities. You can be in such a state in any of the four postures, but neither being alive or such temporary states leads inevitably to liberation. Being a samadhi or jhana junkie is not helpful.
You are arguing without knowing what Buddha said on the matter. Why do that? Because he did say it is a a superhuman ability and a must-have ability as well.

Long sitting stays in jhana, even in Hindu or other non-Buddhist traditions, can be observed if you stand in front of a meditator who uses such periods and wait. I can’t imagine anybody being that interested. if you go on a retreat you will likely find people who ignore the rest periods and sit continually for long periods (you can check in on them occasionally to see that they are still sitting).
Ok, you haven't seen, but only heard "this can be seen" somewhere. And I tell you - you won't see this. Yes, there meditators who meditate a lot here or there or somewhere. But no one among them can demonstrate 10+ hours sitting. Just because they don't have jhana - this is why they just can't. Too painful for them to sit that long.

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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Aloof » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:19 pm

A person lives and develops Wisdom.
Wisdom is advanced powerful antivirus system that will stop you from doing anything against that system.
Suppose you have over many births developed a Wisdom that I will never steal.
Now if you are facing death or any other serious problem unless you steal ......your system will face death rather than steal. And all your logic will fail you to save yourself . This is Wisdom and beginning of a Jhanna.
This Jhanna has a certain frequency . When this frequency is very strong , it connects you to Universal mind . This Universal mind emits thousands of Jhannas. And one of them is your Jhanna (strong Wisdom).
When they come in contact with each other , You now become the master of that Jhanna.

Even this one Jannah opens a lot of advantages for you...... some of them are..

1. you come into a loop of universal mind and you become a Bhoddisattva. You have entered Mahayana. Your health, fullfillments of desires and life will increase.
2. Your subseqent Jhannas will start growing easily.
3 Your Buddhahood also will start getting nearer. etc.

Caodemarte
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Caodemarte » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:14 pm

Zom wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:20 pm
Being alive is a must have tool for the ultimate goal of Buddhism. It is not a superhuman ability. Samadhi or jhana can be helpful. They are not superhuman abilities. You can be in such a state in any of the four postures, but neither being alive or such temporary states leads inevitably to liberation. Being a samadhi or jhana junkie is not helpful.
You are arguing without knowing what Buddha said on the matter. Why do that? Because he did say it is a a superhuman ability and a must-have ability as well.

Long sitting stays in jhana, even in Hindu or other non-Buddhist traditions, can be observed if you stand in front of a meditator who uses such periods and wait. I can’t imagine anybody being that interested. if you go on a retreat you will likely find people who ignore the rest periods and sit continually for long periods (you can check in on them occasionally to see that they are still sitting).
Ok, you haven't seen, but only heard "this can be seen" somewhere. And I tell you - you won't see this. Yes, there meditators who meditate a lot here or there or somewhere. But no one among them can demonstrate 10+ hours sitting. Just because they don't have jhana - this is why they just can't. Too painful for them to sit that long.
Again, this can and has been observed in many traditions. I invite you visit any reputable training monastery if you wish to stand over a meditator and watch. How long you stay In jhana is not terribly important and, as far as I can see, you apparently are the only one who wants to see this claimed, demonstrated or “proven.” However, sItting a long time is not evidence of jhana. Long periods of jhana are neither evidence of enlightenment or superhuman. The entire point of Buddhism is lost if liberation is seen as something only superhumans can achieve. Many people are flexible enough to sit on full lotus for an indefinite period, even sleep in that position, and it it is not painful for them. The dead do it all the time!

If you believe otherwise, that’s fine. I don’t see the need to keep restating positions.
Last edited by Caodemarte on Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Zom » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:17 pm

Many people are flexible enough to sit on full lotus for an indefinite period
It seems like you've never meditated long enough and also have a poor knowledge of physiology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_ulcer

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