How to reach the 1st Jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
thepea
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by thepea » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:58 pm

Zom wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:10 pm
Thanissaro said it's related to the verb jayati (spelling?) Which means to burn steadily, and used to be used to describe the steady flame of an oil lamp. This doesn't seem so much like bright visual lights when described that way.
But still much better (closer) than any other meaning, like, I don't know - falling into water :D
It seems to explain the sensation of first jhana when you absorb into suffering and begin to burn up your defilements. If you look on the surface the sensations associated with unpleasant are there if you look deeper they break apart.
At this point there is no aversion to these sensation but in order to have proper samadhi you must not crave for this subtler state.
At this point you can sit for longer periods without craving and aversion and you make progress on the path.
You can also continuously reach this state but have craving to this state you can also sit for long periods of time but you are increasing your craving and not progressing on the path.
With proper samadhi there is awareness with balance and calm, with this one can move into subtler states 2-3-4thjhanas but same rules apply if there is craving you are not burning up your defilements.

Saengnapha
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Saengnapha » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:20 am

thepea wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:58 pm
Zom wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:10 pm
Thanissaro said it's related to the verb jayati (spelling?) Which means to burn steadily, and used to be used to describe the steady flame of an oil lamp. This doesn't seem so much like bright visual lights when described that way.
But still much better (closer) than any other meaning, like, I don't know - falling into water :D
It seems to explain the sensation of first jhana when you absorb into suffering and begin to burn up your defilements. If you look on the surface the sensations associated with unpleasant are there if you look deeper they break apart.
At this point there is no aversion to these sensation but in order to have proper samadhi you must not crave for this subtler state.
At this point you can sit for longer periods without craving and aversion and you make progress on the path.
You can also continuously reach this state but have craving to this state you can also sit for long periods of time but you are increasing your craving and not progressing on the path.
With proper samadhi there is awareness with balance and calm, with this one can move into subtler states 2-3-4thjhanas but same rules apply if there is craving you are not burning up your defilements.
Please tell us which defilements you have burned up? Jhana is a temporary state. How can a temporary state burn up what you call defilements? This is an illusion extraordinaire. It has been shown over and over again that when meditators come out of jhana, there is no fundamental change that has taken place. You have simply created a calm state of mind in comparison with what you usually experience in your daily life. You remain a divided 'entity' in your cognition of subject and object. This cognitive process is untouched by jhanas because it is part of the cognitive process.

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DooDoot
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:10 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:20 am
Please tell us which defilements you have burned up? Jhana is a temporary state. How can a temporary state burn up what you call defilements?
Buddhist jhana appears to burn up defilements. Arahantship is said to "uproot" defilement rather than "burn up". The burning up of defilements would even start with the proper practise of morality. To quote:
...those bhikkhus who have... attenuated lust, hate and delusion are all once-returners... MN 22
Somewhere, i recall, the suttas say the Buddha said the inclination towards sensuality is largely reduced when the superior non-sensual pleasure of jhana is developed; that is; before his mind developed jhana, it could wander back to thoughts of sensuality.
Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:20 am
It has been shown over and over again that when meditators come out of jhana, there is no fundamental change that has taken place. You have simply created a calm state of mind in comparison with what you usually experience in your daily life.
It seems the above idea is not referring to Buddhist Ariya Samma Samadhi Jhana.

thepea
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by thepea » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:13 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:20 am

Please tell us which defilements you have burned up? Jhana is a temporary state. How can a temporary state burn up what you call defilements? This is an illusion extraordinaire. It has been shown over and over again that when meditators come out of jhana, there is no fundamental change that has taken place. You have simply created a calm state of mind in comparison with what you usually experience in your daily life. You remain a divided 'entity' in your cognition of subject and object. This cognitive process is untouched by jhanas because it is part of the cognitive process.
There is less craving less aversion and less ignorance due to burning up a good portion of this.
When we work appropriately we see three characteristics this is how the bonds are broken.
Perhaps the meditators you refer to have not right samadhi and are filled with craving to these states?
With proper morality arises proper samadhi which allows the liberativecwisdom ti arise. How is a meditator the same after gaining experiential wisdom?

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manas
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by manas » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:18 pm

I think reading many different suttas, then comparing them, is a good thing. However, much in the suttas can be hard to understand, until it has been explained to one, by a dhamma teacher, and if you are interested in jhana according to the suttas, choose your teacher with care, find one who bases their Buddhism on the Pali Nikayas. I go back and forth, listening to explanations of the dhamma, then rereading important suttas or passages, then listening again, then reading the same sutta with a deeper understanding...a gradual process. Of course, one also gradually 'feels one's way' to the physical and mental 'seclusion' that jhana is said to be 'born of', gradually, with practice over a period of time, and in my experience, with a fair bit of trial and error.

:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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Kamran
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Kamran » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:02 am

Nwad wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:14 pm
Kamran wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:07 am
When I read Leigh Brasington description below I was shocked that it was ***identical*** to a wonderful meditation experience I had but have not since been able to reproduce.

http://www.leighb.com/jhana3.htm
I had one too, but i dont know how i did it, so never more arrived. I was sitting in metta practice, and then, when concentrated on heart, from my heart there is arrived a HUUUGE vawe of pleasure !! It rised and rised!! So HUGE that i'he never see it before, so HUGE that actually i get affraid :tongue: (like young Buddha under the tree near the river who get affraid of jhanna pleasure? Dont remeber the sutta number..) And when i get affraid of a such huge pleasure, and my mind tryed to take it under control, rather than let it go and let it grow - its stopped...

Never see it again... :broke:
Not just the experience was the same as described by Leigh Brasington, but the method that led the experience was also identical to what he describes.
"Silence gives answers"

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

thepea
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by thepea » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:31 am

Nwad wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:14 pm

I had one too, but i dont know how i did it, so never more arrived. I was sitting in metta practice, and then, when concentrated on heart, from my heart there is arrived a HUUUGE vawe of pleasure !! It rised and rised!! So HUGE that i'he never see it before, so HUGE that actually i get affraid
Yes, this is a form of absorption, the mind is focused on Kaya. The mental construct of fear or excitement has the affect of multiplying this sensation or changing it. As one activates annicca through meditation they begin to explore this with calm and balance, the sensation stabilizes and begins to refine allowing one to absorb deeper 2-3-4th jhanas.
In my opinion it is less about growing this seemingly pleasant sensation(suffering) but more about lessening and coming out of this sensations.

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Nwad
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Nwad » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:58 am

Thank you Thepea and Kamran to your reply!

Ysterday, after reading a chapter about Dhutanga in Visudhimagga, before going asleep, i does my meditation session.
The theme was dukkha.
After scanning all parts of my body and get to "acces concentration" which was clear and open, with body calm and little numb, i left my mind on pleasant sensation in my hands. After some minutes my mind and feelings becomes to change. I felt my mind being absorbed, my feeling becoming more perceptive (sounds become more loud, smouth lightlings in my closed eyes become lighter, my body became complitely numb, i get very very very HOT and even get some sue on my moustache lol and as the firts time there is some powerfull feeling and my heart rythm explosed, with breathing become very fast because of all of that sensations !

As my theme was dukkha my mind dont interpret this powerfull feeling as "pleasure" and this heart beating and breath rythm increase as "fear". And i think that this great heat sensation was because my concentration on "hand touch" feeling. Anyway, what is intresting is that my body became complitely numb, i no more felt it, just feeling of numbness, and as sensations was very strong i lost my perception of time... After imerging of that state i asked my self is my perception of heart beating and breathing fast was not just perception of some kind of "acceleration mode" like some movie which you accelerate ... i dont know.. but if this state would be more stable with not excited mind who break it, it seems to be pretty realistic to seat like this a couple of hours or so...

I dont know if it was some kind of absorbtion but i know that its works and how it works, so i will try to explore that :toilet:

PS watching a little bit closer i think that this heat in body appear because my concentratiin of mind was nit realy about pleasent feeling in hands, but about "heat" feeling percived as "pleasent"... Kasina?

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rightviewftw
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:23 pm

i once got really hot too and paniced when sitting for a longer time. I think there is a mention about meditator becoming very hot on occasion in the Vsm as well. It did not happen again to me since and i think it was just something off and it is not something one should pay much attention to.

pinit29
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by pinit29 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:43 am

Firsr of all, please excuse my english. I'm not the native english speaker and I didn't learn about Buddism in English (I learned it in Thai). So i don't know many buddism english words. But I will try my best explained it to you and lead you to 1st jhana.

Would you like to learn how to achieve 1th jhana (even 4th jhana if you wish) through the game called "Tug of war"?...Yes, tug of war. I'm not kidding

In this game, there are 3 requirements to be able to play. 1. One player on one side 2. Another player on another side 3. A rope.

To win this game is to pull the opponent to your side. And your winning prize is 4th jhana.

Now let me explain about 3 requirements.
1. The 1st player is Sati (Conciousness)
2. The opponent player is Jitta (Your mind)
3. The rope is your breathing.
3.1 This rope is small but very strong. However, if you are not professional player, you will not able to grab this rope tightly because of its size (too small for beginner). So, how about we make the rope bigger so it is easier for us to grab. In order to do this, we use the wording, any words. How about Budd-dha... when you breath in...think of Budd... when you breath out... think of the word Dha.

Here is some tips to win this game
- Use the rope to tie the Jitta (Your mind)
- Sati (Conciousness) is your strength. Use it to grab the rope and pull it.
- If there is the rope but no strength to grab and pull it, you will get pull back by Jitta instead
- If you have the stregth but no rope to grab hold, then there will be nothing you can pull
*** So, grab the rope firmly and tightly then pull(Sati is focus completely on the wording)

Once you win, your Sati will let go of both breathing and wording. The game is ended. So , there is no need for the rope (breathing and wording). The 2 things left is your Maha(big or large)-Sati and your jitta (your mind) that is in completely calm and peaceful state. This is the 4th jhana state.

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Nwad
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Re: How to reach the 1st Jhana?

Post by Nwad » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:11 am

:clap: :bow:
Haha! Never heared thins teaching style! :)) Very intresting game !
Thank you for charing this Pinit, i will try :) :anjali:

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