My experience with jhana and samadhi, comments welcome

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
SunWuKong
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:41 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: My experience with jhana and samadhi, comments welcome

Post by SunWuKong » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:03 pm

manas wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:13 pm
SunWuKong wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:14 pm
My experience with jhana/samadhi is leading me somewhere I just need a road map and some fellow travelers.
Hi, the best road map I've found, is from the Samannaphala Sutta. I'm only posting the section from 'abandoning the hindrances' on, up to the first jhana, but there is much more in the sutta. Wha(https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html)
[/quote]
Thank you

SunWuKong
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:41 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: My experience with jhana and samadhi, comments welcome

Post by SunWuKong » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:14 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:39 pm
SunWuKong wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:28 pm
In practical layman’s terms, one pointed attention silences directed thought, applied thought. Only subtle thought and feeling remains which recognizes that it is happening. At first it may be pleasurable, joyous, but eventually even those feelings are gone over. All that remains is a general sense of equanimity.
I read cittaekaggata relates to unmovingness, as follows:
The one-consciousness in time produces the extraordinary stability of the
first jhana, allowing it to last effortlessly for such a long period of time.
The concept of time relies on measuring intervals: from past to present or
from present to future of from past to future. When all that is perceived
within the first jhana is the precise moment of now, then there is no
room for measuring time. All intervals have closed. It is replaced with
the perception of timelessness, unmoving.

http://dhammatalks.net/Books/Ajahn_Brahm_The_Jhanas.pdf
:candle:
SunWuKong wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:28 pm
Only a trace of mental activity exists, beyond that there’s no memory of an experience, so it’s impossible to say anything about it.
If the Buddha described jhana, I guess this mind must have experienced & remembered them.

Metta. Good night from here. :meditate:
A couple of notes: passing through Piti, the body becomes energized, erect, stable, circulation flows well. Physical pain from sitting is unlikely. The passage of time, one moment flowing forward yet remaining as one moment, that’s a wonderful feeling. I’d never considered the possibility of it lending itself to longer sessions because I’ve never had the luxury of time to do so. Anyway anyone still following this thread, for me one hour sessions are necessary for me to move beyond the turbulence if daily life and to find truly quiet mind and heart, to direct it to Dhamma

SunWuKong
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:41 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: My experience with jhana and samadhi, comments welcome

Post by SunWuKong » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:01 am

You guys are great thanks for all the feed back. It’s given me a lot to work with.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: My experience with jhana and samadhi, comments welcome

Post by Modus.Ponens » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:29 am

SunWuKong wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:14 pm
So, as you may or may not know, Anapanasati, Satipatthana, samatha, Vipassana are taught in Theraveda, Mahāyāna, and Vajrayana programs. So what I was taught in the mindfulness practices in Thich Nhat Hanhs organization was simply samatha, and after about ten years of doing it I took it out and wondered if it needed fixing. I decided it needed more bare attention and wakefulness. And this was the result: strange things started happening. Didn’t know what it was. But I knew what it seemed like so I started searching online. It took s few months to piece together but it had something to do with samadhi and jhana. At first it was great but at the same time I didn’t have support from teacher or sangha due to my job and work schedule. Without going into details, let’s just say it was a game-changer. Recently I began to approach the problems of no teacher no sangha. Then I discover that my experience is not considered authentic by the same teacher who taught the samatha in the first place. I can’t ignore or discount the experience so until the dust settles I’m looking for other traditions/lineage. Ad hoc “mindfulness” teachings aren’t at the top of the list, I think that’s part of the problem, not the solution. I’m not sectarian, as I have no dog in this fight. My experience with jhana/samadhi is leading me somewhere I just need a road map and some fellow travelers.
Hello.

My sugestions are:

(1) Read "Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English", by Bhante Gunaratana. It's a very good book on (sutta) jhana.

The difference between sutta jhana and hard jhana is mostly the degree of one pointedness of attention. In hard jhana, the mind is so one pointed that you lose the sense of your body and you can't direct this jhanic mind to vipassana. Also, hard jhana is said to be very hard to attain. Sutta jhana is jhana with a unified, collected and stable mind, together with the jhana factors of each corresponding jhana. But it is not strictly one pointed, it's easier to attain, and it's useful for deep insight.

(The sutta jhanas are taught in the book, as opposed to an earlier book by Bhante Gunaratana which was about hard jhana, so be careful and read his later material.)

(2) Listen to Ayya Khema dhamma talks about jhana. She was one of the first contemporary teachers to openly teach the (sutta) jhanas.

Also, I believe she was an arahant, so you could benefit from listening to her dhamma talks about paths and fruits. You may take my opinion about her being an arahant with a large dose of skepticism, but I assure you that at least you'll like these dhamma talks. And they're freely available on the web.

Lastly, the hindrance of doubt is suppressed during jhana, but not permanently removed, so you may be doubtful outside of jhana, but during jhana there are no doubts tormenting your mind.

Añjali
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

Saengnapha
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: My experience with jhana and samadhi, comments welcome

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:02 am

SunWuKong wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:01 am
You guys are great thanks for all the feed back. It’s given me a lot to work with.
I used to be gung ho on meditation and the feelings and insights I used to get through them. One day, I realized how I had neglected my mundane, everyday moments, my reactive emotions and opinionated moods that are so common to all of us. No real change had occurred. I had disregarded how I lived as a person for the rapture of some moments of meditative absorption. These are so temporary, yet we chase them. Real change happens at the human level, the way we live, not in our conceptual life which jhanas are mostly involved with. I'm not saying don't experience jhanas. I am saying give your heart to your daily life and interactions with others. Orient yourself to love, to the wholesome in mind and body and you automatically experience jhanas.

SunWuKong
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:41 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: My experience with jhana and samadhi, comments welcome

Post by SunWuKong » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:07 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:29 am
SunWuKong wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:14 pm
So, as you may or may not know, Anapanasati, Satipatthana, samatha, Vipassana are taught in Theraveda, Mahāyāna, and Vajrayana programs. So what I was taught in the mindfulness practices in Thich Nhat Hanhs organization was simply samatha, and after about ten years of doing it I took it out and wondered if it needed fixing. I decided it needed more bare attention and wakefulness. And this was the result: strange things started happening. Didn’t know what it was. But I knew what it seemed like so I started searching online. It took s few months to piece together but it had something to do with samadhi and jhana. At first it was great but at the same time I didn’t have support from teacher or sangha due to my job and work schedule. Without going into details, let’s just say it was a game-changer. Recently I began to approach the problems of no teacher no sangha. Then I discover that my experience is not considered authentic by the same teacher who taught the samatha in the first place. I can’t ignore or discount the experience so until the dust settles I’m looking for other traditions/lineage. Ad hoc “mindfulness” teachings aren’t at the top of the list, I think that’s part of the problem, not the solution. I’m not sectarian, as I have no dog in this fight. My experience with jhana/samadhi is leading me somewhere I just need a road map and some fellow travelers.
Thank you - he actually is nearby - but has stepped down from some of his work.
Hello.

My sugestions are:

(1) Read "Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English", by Bhante Gunaratana. It's a very good book on (sutta) jhana.

The difference between sutta jhana and hard jhana is mostly the degree of one pointedness of attention. In hard jhana, the mind is so one pointed that you lose the sense of your body and you can't direct this jhanic mind to vipassana. Also, hard jhana is said to be very hard to attain. Sutta jhana is jhana with a unified, collected and stable mind, together with the jhana factors of each corresponding jhana. But it is not strictly one pointed, it's easier to attain, and it's useful for deep insight.

(The sutta jhanas are taught in the book, as opposed to an earlier book by Bhante Gunaratana which was about hard jhana, so be careful and read his later material.)

(2) Listen to Ayya Khema dhamma talks about jhana. She was one of the first contemporary teachers to openly teach the (sutta) jhanas.

Also, I believe she was an arahant, so you could benefit from listening to her dhamma talks about paths and fruits. You may take my opinion about her being an arahant with a large dose of skepticism, but I assure you that at least you'll like these dhamma talks. And they're freely available on the web.

Lastly, the hindrance of doubt is suppressed during jhana, but not permanently removed, so you may be doubtful outside of jhana, but during jhana there are no doubts tormenting your mind.

Añjali

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