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Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:55 am
by SarathW
Can you practice Brahma Vihara in the second Jhana?

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:24 pm
by Saengnapha
SarathW wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:55 am
Can you practice Brahma Vihara in the second Jhana?
In my experience, if you mean metta bhavana as a practice, you can do it as your practice when you are sitting and can easily lead you into jhanas. Visualizing metta and cultivating it can be the easiest and fastest way for some people to experience samadhi.

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:53 pm
by SarathW
My understanding is you cant practice Brahama Vihara in Second Jhana.
In second Jhana there is no Vitakka and Vicara.

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:48 am
by Saengnapha
SarathW wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:53 pm
My understanding is you cant practice Brahama Vihara in Second Jhana.
In second Jhana there is no Vitakka and Vicara.
Give a listen to this. 15 minute video.

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:51 am
by Saengnapha
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:48 am
SarathW wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:53 pm
My understanding is you cant practice Brahama Vihara in Second Jhana.
In second Jhana there is no Vitakka and Vicara.
Give a listen to this. 15 minute video.
This short pdf accompanies the talk.

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:54 am
by SarathW
Thank you Sengnapha.
In second jhana you do not have vtakka and vicara.
So how do you practice Karuna and Muditha in second Jahana.

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:58 am
by DooDoot
I think jhana in itself is a brahma realm, where the heart is saturated with bliss & love due to having no (unwholesome) hindrances. There is no need to practise verbal 'metta' recitations because the heart already is saturated with love. :heart:

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:04 am
by SarathW
Hi DD
Yes, I agree.
My question is how he tries to mary four Jhana with Brahmavihara.
How do you practice Brhama Vihara if you do not have Vitakka and Vicar in sencond Jhana.

In this video.
Metta =1st Jhana
Karuna = 2nd Jhana
Muditha = 3rd Jhana
Upekkha = 4th Jhana

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 am
by DooDoot
There is no need to have Vitakka and Vicara in second Jhana because the heart is saturated with love. :heart:

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:39 am
by SarathW
DooDoot wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 am
There is no need to have Vitakka and Vicara in second Jhana because the heart is saturated with love. :heart:
So then what happens in the third Jhana?

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:51 am
by LG2V
It's possible. I've read it explained in either the scriptures or the commentaries before.

Here's a quote from an article on the Brahmaviharas by Nyanaponika Thera:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el006.html
That meditation is called Brahma-vihara-bhavana, the meditative development of the sublime states. The practical aim is to achieve, with the help of these sublime states, those high stages of mental concentration called jhana, "meditative absorption." The meditations on love, compassion and sympathetic joy may each produce the attainment of the first three absorptions, while the meditation on equanimity will lead to the fourth jhana only, in which equanimity is the most significant factor.

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:54 am
by SarathW
Thanks LG.
those high stages of mental concentration called jhana
Very interesting.
So Jhana can be attained in many different ways.
while the meditation on equanimity will lead to the fourth jhana only, in which equanimity is the most significant factor.
This is even more interesting.
It appears you can go straight to fourth Jhana.

What is equanimity by the way?

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:54 pm
by Saengnapha
DooDoot wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 am
There is no need to have Vitakka and Vicara in second Jhana because the heart is saturated with love. :heart:
+1.
Brahma Vihara moves into a non verbal area as it deepens in Karuna and Mudita, and finally in Upekkha. You lose your head, so to speak.

Re: Can you practice Brahma Vihara in second Jhana?

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:58 am
by LG2V
SarathW wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:54 am
Thanks LG.
those high stages of mental concentration called jhana
Very interesting.
So Jhana can be attained in many different ways.
while the meditation on equanimity will lead to the fourth jhana only, in which equanimity is the most significant factor.
This is even more interesting.
It appears you can go straight to fourth Jhana.

What is equanimity by the way?

No problem :smile:

Equanimity means serenity. It's mental balance despite the highs and lows of life.