Ajahn chah jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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befriend
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Ajahn chah jhana

Post by befriend »

Did Ajahn chah practice jhana if so what was his method?
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Aloka
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

Post by Aloka »

.

There's a previous topic "ajahn chah explanation of jhana ?" which might be helpful:


https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=16332


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JohnK
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

Post by JohnK »

Just liking this Ajahn Chah quote from that earlier thread:
There can be happiness or suffering; there can be obstruction. Rather than doubting, understand that conditions of mind are like this; whatever manifests is coming about due to causes ripening. At this moment this condition is manifesting; that's what you should recognize.
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
Nobodyisspecial
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

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Ajahn Chah taught about the jhanas. He did not emphasize mysticism at all. His teaching was all about being simple and an ascetic contemplative. It was an emphasis against intellectualization. It was an emphasis of the vinaya. He did not even appreciate the path of purification meditation manual nor any abhidhamma. He was for letting go of all attachments and going to face fear in dangerous locations. He was kind of an Ajahn Min disciple and kind of just self realized as well. His whole life was relinquished for the pursuit of enlightenment that the entire society did not believe was possible. Laity would tell him about life being suffering and how he had an easy life as a monk and he would reply about having a heart to that had to escape samsara with the spirit of a true spiritual warrior that over comes effluents and traps of affection. He rests in paranibbana.
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mjaviem
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

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Nobodyisspecial wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:08 pm Ajahn Chah taught about the jhanas. He did not emphasize mysticism at all. His teaching was all about being simple and an ascetic contemplative. It was an emphasis against intellectualization. It was an emphasis of the vinaya. He did not even appreciate the path of purification meditation manual nor any abhidhamma. He was for letting go of all attachments and going to face fear in dangerous locations. He was kind of an Ajahn Min disciple and kind of just self realized as well. His whole life was relinquished for the pursuit of enlightenment that the entire society did not believe was possible. Laity would tell him about life being suffering and how he had an easy life as a monk and he would reply about having a heart to that had to escape samsara with the spirit of a true spiritual warrior that over comes effluents and traps of affection. He rests in paranibbana.
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dharmacorps
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

Post by dharmacorps »

One fascinating thing about Luang Por Chah was, he was open about meditation methods. He was far from dogmatic. A lesson for all of us perhaps. I have been told that if you had a kind of meditation that was working for you, Luang por would tell you to keep at it, even if was something different than was traditionally taught.
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mjaviem
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

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dharmacorps wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:07 pm One fascinating thing about Luang Por Chah was, he was open about meditation methods...
Ajahn Chah wrote: A: It is like going into town. One can approach from the north, from the south-east, from many roads. Often these systems just differ outwardly. Whether you walk one way or another, fast or slow, if you are mindful, it is all the same. There is one essential point that all good practice must eventually come to - not clinging. In the end, all meditation systems must be let go of. Neither can one cling to the teacher. If a system leads to relinquishment, to not clinging, then it is correct practice.
...
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frank k
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

Post by frank k »

befriend wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:28 pm Did Ajahn chah practice jhana if so what was his method?
excerpt on jhana and it's factors from excellent book 2018, stillness flowing
https://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/ ... index.html

note that in that account, it matches a correct sutta interpretation, unlike Ajahn Chah's famous disciple A. Brahm, who incorrectly reads sutta passage jhana like the visuddhimagga disembodied frozen stupor "jhana" (without underlying abhidhamma theory).
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Tennok
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

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befriend wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:28 pm Did Ajahn chah practice jhana if so what was his method?
Hi,

I have his collections of Dhamma Talks called "Food for heart". He writes about jhanas there. He instructes, that one fixes attention on the nose tip or upper lip and tries to stay with the breath, while practising letting go and being mindfull of kilesa, expectations and such. He had this famous metaphore of a silent forrest pond. One sits quietly, ant the water, which is mudded when agitated and stirred by thoughts, gets calm, becouse this is nature. Mud comes down, and the water gets clear. And later, if one meditates long enough, animals come to the pond. Some of them really strange and supernatural, never seen before. Those beautiful, rare beasts are the jhanas.

Seemingly, he accepted the official Theravadian view of the jhanas as deep absorbtions without senses. He thaught that viccara means "lifting of the attention" ( on the breath) and viccara mens to contemplate the breath. So no verbal thinking. But he also pointed out the dangers of deep jhanas, such as becoming a bliss adict. He doubted the merit of meditating without any sensory data coming. He warned his disciples, that lighter Samadhi, so called Acces Concentration, in which sati is active and insight is still possible, is more beneficial and safer.

But when Chah's instructed some local Thai gentelman, old and experienced practicioner, the Thai guy told him, that he is already doing good minfulness practice. And now, being minfdul during every activity, he wishes to practice absorptions ( deep jhanas ). Ajahn Chah's answer was something like :"Go for it. Absorptions are great, I envy you ".

My guess is, that his opinions about jhana were dependent on context and the audience. Warnings against deep jhanas were given to young western monks, who often were ex hippies, insecure and lost in the world. Those guys often had various drug experiences and were very ambitious, neurotic and craving for achievments at the same time. Luang Por wanted to them to train actively, by enduring hardships, tough physical work, such as moving mounds of sand from place to place, Milarepa style, etc. Make them stronger.

So there are some contradictions here. But Ajahn Chah was not a scholar, with ambition to create systems of thought. He didn't like to discuss and argue about words. 'Finish everything, out with all of that!", that was his motto.
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bodom
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

Post by bodom »

Tennok wrote:But when Chah's instructed some local Thai gentelman, old and experienced practicioner, the Thai guy told him, that he is already doing good minfulness practice. And now, being minfdul during every activity, he wishes to practice absorptions ( deep jhanas ). Ajahn Chah's answer was something like :"Go for it. Absorptions are great, I envy you ".
This is what was said:
Q: I have been meditating many years now. My mind is open and peaceful in almost all circumstances. Now I would like to try to backtrack and practise high states of concentration or mind absorption.

A: This is fine. It is a beneficial mental exercise. If you have wisdom, you will not get hung up on concentrated states of mind. It is the same as wanting to sit for long periods. This is fine for training, but really, practice is separate from any posture. It is a matter of directly looking at the mind. This is wisdom. When you have examined and understood the mind, then you have the wisdom to know the limitations of concentration, or of books. If you have practised and understand not-clinging, you can then return to the books. They will be like a sweet dessert. They can help you to teach others. Or you can go back to practise absorption. You have the wisdom to know not to hold on to anything.
:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Tennok
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

Post by Tennok »

Well done, bodom. I see that my memory of this dialog was far from perfect...But I guess Ajahn was rather positive toward deep absorbtion here...if one is not clinging to it.
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bodom
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

Post by bodom »

Tennok wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:16 pm ...But I guess Ajahn was rather positive toward deep absorbtion here...if one is not clinging to it.
Yes it would appear so.

Ajahn Jayasaro touches on Ajahn Chah's attitude toward jhana practice here is this short passage from his Biography Stillness Flowing:
Accurately conveying Luang Por’s meditation teachings is thus somewhat hampered by the unevenness of the body of recorded evidence; some topics are well-covered, others not so well at all. Complications are also caused by the fact that the material that is available is transcribed from instructions given ad hoc and which are reflective of time, place and audience. Luang Por’s response to questions about the importance of the cultivation of jhāna (absorption), for example, varied according to the character and accumulated foundational virtues of the questioner. In other words, if he saw meditators had a well-developed capacity for jhāna, he would encourage it (and it would appear that he considered this the superior path). But if he saw meditators had only a weak capacity, or were getting caught up in the trap of craving for jhāna, he might de-emphasize it. If he saw that meditators possessed strong powers of analysis, he might encourage them to make use of those powers when the mind had gone beyond the hindrances, without waiting for the stabilization of mind provided by jhāna. In this, his teaching paralleled that of his great contemporary, Luang Ta Maha Bua, who coined the phrase: ‘paññā cultivating samādhi’.
:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Tennok
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Re: Ajahn chah jhana

Post by Tennok »

Yes, it's all in the context. We sometimes discuss meditation here, as something universal, set in stone. Like the one best method, the only true meaning, etc. But for this guy, meditation was a medicine, and he prescribed it like a wise doctor.

Stillness Flowing is a great book for anyone interested in Ajahn Chah's teaching and his life. I loved the part about his relation with wild forrest chickens...he often refered to them in his metaphors :smile:

:anjali:
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