To quoteihrjordan wrote:I didn't say a lay person couldn't attain arahantship, I said a householder endowed with the 5 chords of sensual pleasure couldn't attain Anagami or Arahantship.
this is one line, no indication the next line is related.ihrjordan wrote:Profound insight resulting in freedom from suffering - arahantship-unattainable as a layperson
Hence why I pointed this out here.Lay person is a very broad term which means different things to different people. Could Ghatikara the potter be considered a layperson? Sure. Could he be considered a householder who indulges in sensual pleasure? I have my doubts.
householder can be seen as more than a layperson, there are numerous examples of Bhikkhus who are far from the life of a mendicant and indulge in one or more of the five cords of sensuality. and examples of lay people who were far more adept than ordained Bhikkhus.
I personally take the "householders life is full of dust" sentiment to be the individuals way of life. Ordination does not make one holy, nor a meditator.
one I can think of is the drunk. But the moment of insight cut thru the heedless mind. but if you can pinpoint the one you have in mind that would be helpful.Sure there may be stories of this or that householder available in the dhammapada commentaries who managed to bypass all levels of enlightenment and go straight to arahantship while still engaged in sense pleasures but I'm doubtful of the authenticity of these stories which seem to contradict suttas like the one in which a prince asks a Bhikku if it possible to put an end to all craving and the prince says he doesn't believe him (I can't seem to pinpoint where it was) and the Buddha says that it is impossible that one who is utterly immersed in suffering via the 5 chords of sensual pleasure may come to grasp the subtleties of this Dhamma.
I understand now thank-you.And when I said grains of suffering I was referring to the simili that the Buddha once used to compare the amount of suffering left for a stream enterer in contrast to that of an untrained ordinary person whose suffering is as though al the grains of sand in the Ganga river.
Lhiats dy firrinagh focklagh