Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
SarathW
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Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:50 am

Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?
If not why?
How does this differ from the "God" concept of Hindu religion?
If yes:
Can they achieve all eight (or 9) Jhana?

This question came to my mind based on a post from anther link.

=============
mikenz66 wrote:
I think it's up to you to show what parts of the path could not be achieved by non-Buddhists, apart from the wisdom aspects.


sarathW wrote:
This is how now I understand it.

There are two aspect of Noble Eight Fold Path.

1)Mundane right-view lead to mundane Samma-samdhi. (Jhana or absorption concentration)
So that means people who follow Jaine and some aspect of Hindu may qualify for this level of concentration.
However Abrahamic relegions are not qualify for this unfortunately. (As they do not believe in all ten wholesome factors. ie. Kamma, re-birth etc)

2)Supermundane right-view lead to Arahattaphala-samadhi (Not Jhana or absorption concentration) Only Buddhist can attain this level.


http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 40#p375318" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);

===========
Please consider the following when answer above question.


2.Mindfulness (sati): this is alertness, which makes us aware of what is happening to us, from moment to moment, through the five physical senses and the mind. Mindfulness is essential to insight meditation, when it must be conjoined with a clear comprehension of the suitability, purpose, and conformity with reality of any action. Then it is called right mindfulness (sammaa sati). Usually the average person acts without any form of mindfulness; his acts are prompted by force of habit. Right mindfulness has two functions: one is to increase the power of recollection and the other is to evaluate what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. Right mindfulness is a spiritual faculty that maintains a proper balance of the other faculties — faith, energy, concentration and wisdom.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el322.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
Last edited by SarathW on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sylvester
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by Sylvester » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:00 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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tiltbillings
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:41 am

SarathW wrote:Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?
Why would you want to do that? If you want that sort of god notion as part of your meditation practice, then it would be best to do so within the framework of a theistic religion and try not to deform the Buddha's teachings to make it fit into a theistic mold.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by pegembara » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:55 am

If the purpose is to achieve mental stillness, many things can be used as the object for anchoring the mind eg. breath, kasinas, mantra, body scan, recollection of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.
So, I see no reason why "God" cannot be used. After all the mantra Buddho serves the same purpose ie. for achieving samadhi/stillness.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by Goofaholix » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:22 am

How does God "feel"?

Can you observe God arising and passing away?

God is a concept, a thought, so can be observed like any other thought I suppose.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

SarathW
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:35 am

I am thinking more in line with Samath (absorption) practice not Vipassana (contemplate on arising and falling).
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Goofaholix
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by Goofaholix » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:44 am

SarathW wrote:I am thinking more in line with Samath (absorption) practice not Vipassana (contemplate on arising and falling).
I guess imagining God is as good a meditation object for jhana practice as imagining anything else.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:59 am

Recollections such as this would only take you to access concentration, according to the commentary maps (if we consider it to be similar to recollection of Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... and_jhanas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It may be possible to interpret some suttas differently...


:anjali:
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SarathW
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:10 am

Thanks Mike
It is pointing at the direction what I am thinking.
The question is whether five hindrances be suppressed by keeping "God" as the meditation object.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:22 am

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is, but clearly Christian mystics have got highly concentrated/unified/calmed by such methods. See, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... meditation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... a_of_Avila
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_of ... #Mysticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ecstasy

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equilibrium
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by equilibrium » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:54 am

SarathW wrote: The question is whether five hindrances be suppressed by keeping "God" as the meditation object.
(Under AN 9.64: Hindrances):
"Monks, there are these five hindrances. Which five? Sensual desire as a hindrance, ill will as a hindrance, sloth & drowsiness as a hindrance, restlessness & anxiety as a hindrance, and uncertainty as a hindrance. These are the five hindrances.

"To abandon these five hindrances, one should develop the four frames of reference. Which four? There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. To abandon the five hindrances, one should develop these four frames of reference."

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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by Pinetree » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:05 am

I never heard in the Abrahamic religions of a practice where God would be a meditation object.

Some Hindu religions will have one or another of their Gods as meditation object.

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mikenz66
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:20 am

Pinetree wrote:I never heard in the Abrahamic religions of a practice where God would be a meditation object.
I'm know very little about Christian mysticism, but wouldn't God be a rather obvious object of contemplation for a Chirstian? St Teresa describes Devotion of Union, absorption in God, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_of ... #Mysticism

:anjali:
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by dagon » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:22 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Pinetree wrote:I never heard in the Abrahamic religions of a practice where God would be a meditation object.
I'm know very little about Christian mysticism, but wouldn't God be a rather obvious object of contemplation for a Chirstian? St Teresa describes Devotion of Union, absorption in God, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_of ... #Mysticism

:anjali:
Mike
http://www.thechristianmeditator.com/ch ... echniques/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Can we keep "God" (Abrahamic religion) as the meditation object?

Post by Saoshun » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:33 am

No, why?

Looking into classical source of Yoga Vashistha you will find people who meditate on God (Brahma) becomes Brahma after death and still being affected by samsara.

So can god be an object for meditation? Yes, if you can drop it when something else appears.

For example most meditators are like painters, you paint your mind with one pointed concentration on some object, it's like painting the wall, one day this color, one day other color, but what meditator need to do, in one moment catch this "painting" and break the wall and enter that hole to realize and go further for breakthrough.

Personally I would say big no? One reason - how do you can use god as on object if you do not know whatever it exists or not? You can use breath, bones, body, stones, but god? It's not even possible the only god which appears it will be thought about one so it make no sense. You will cultivate thought process rather to clearing the screen for the insight.
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:

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