First jhana question

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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lotus flower
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First jhana question

Post by lotus flower » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:51 pm

I am confused about what are directed thinking and sustained thoughts. Because as i see, some teachers teaches control the thoughts and thinking on the Dhamma during focus on a meditation object. For example: control the thoughts and thinking on the Dhamma during focus on the breathing. Another example: control the thoughts and thinking on the Dhamma during focus on a kasina. But some teachers teach that there is silence in the first jhana, no thoughts. And i know someone who is not a teacher but her first jhana has thoughts for example "How i am happy" "White light" et cetera. What is the truth?
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

santa100
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Re: First jhana question

Post by santa100 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:18 pm

It's important to verify any teacher's teaching by comparing it against the texts. The Vism. IV.88 (starting page 136) gives pretty detailed description of vitakka and vicara. Also see Ven. Gunaratana's "The Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation" where he cited many Sutta and Comy. sources for his analysis on the jhanas.

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samseva
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Re: First jhana question

Post by samseva » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:26 am

In the first jhāna, there is both thought-conception (vitakka) and discursive thinking (vicāra).

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The Thinker
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Re: First jhana question

Post by The Thinker » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:26 pm

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"'I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the first jhana.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk, secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
"Watch your heart, observe. Be the observer, be the knower, not the condition" Ajahn Sumedho volume5 - The Wheel Of Truth

lotus flower
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Re: First jhana question

Post by lotus flower » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:38 pm

But Thanissaro Bhikkhu advices in his book that do directed thinking on the breath or on the Dhamma ONLY if the mind often wandering. Another teacher think we should thinking on the Dhamma during focus on a meditation object. See the difference between Thanissaro Bhikkhu and another teachers....
Last edited by lotus flower on Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

Pinetree
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Re: First jhana question

Post by Pinetree » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:36 pm

Don't try to police thoughts or force them away, that is not going to work.

Just meditate.

He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness
Sometimes such quotes are interpreted as a suggestion to police our thoughts.

My understanding is that right view will show you unwholesome thoughts as what they really are, a cause of suffering and the mind will become naturally dis-inclined towards them.
do directed thinking on the breath or on the Dhamma ONLY if the mind often wandering
This method may be helpful in meditation, I haven't tried it, you can try it and see if it helps.

Different teachers are teaching different methods, some may be useful to you, others may not.

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