If I did not have rapture ...

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Post Reply
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 795
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

If I did not have rapture ...

Post by Pondera » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:46 am

If I did not have rapture I could not sit for periods of time without wanting to get up and do something else. That, IMO, is the purpose of rapture - or the benefit of it.

I do not sit on the floor. I feel like I'm "being like a monk" if I sit on the floor. I like to sit on a chair with my decaf coffee by my side. This is much more preferable.
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: If I did not have rapture ...

Post by JamesTheGiant » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:30 am

I agree, those nice things that happen in meditation are really vital for motivation and encouragement.
Not to be clung to of course, but helpful.

I've heard of monks going for years just bashing their heads against constant unpleasant states, pain, boredom, fear... Not sure how I'd cope with that...

Cormac Brown
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:10 am

Re: If I did not have rapture ...

Post by Cormac Brown » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:39 pm

Yes, let's hear it for rapture.
"Lord, when a disciple of the noble ones enters & remains in seclusion & rapture, there are five possibilities that do not exist at that time: The pain & distress dependent on sensuality do not exist at that time. The pleasure & joy dependent on sensuality do not exist at that time. The pain & distress dependent on what is unskillful do not exist at that time. The pleasure & joy dependent on what is unskillful do not exist at that time. The pain & distress dependent on what is skillful do not exist at that time. When a disciple of the noble ones enters & remains in seclusion & rapture, these five possibilities do not exist at that time."

[Piti Sutta]
I've heard it compared as a balm to heal our wounds. "Entering & remaining" in it for as long as we can refreshes and nourishes our minds and bodies. It helps us enter right concentration, from where we can gain release from all suffering and stress.
“I in the present who am a worthy one, rightly self-awakened, am a
teacher of action, a teacher of activity, a teacher of persistence. But the
worthless man Makkhali contradicts even me, (saying,) ‘There is no
action. There is no activity. There is no persistence.’ "
AN 3.138, trans. Ven. Thanissaro

SarathW
Posts: 10125
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: If I did not have rapture ...

Post by SarathW » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:43 pm

It is important to understand what rapture means.
It means different thing to different people.

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... is+rapture" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: If I did not have rapture ...

Post by acinteyyo » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:39 pm

Pondera wrote:If I did not have rapture I could not sit for periods of time without wanting to get up and do something else. That, IMO, is the purpose of rapture - or the benefit of it.

I do not sit on the floor. I feel like I'm "being like a monk" if I sit on the floor. I like to sit on a chair with my decaf coffee by my side. This is much more preferable.
You sit on a chair with a cup of coffee by your side? And what are you doing apart from that?
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 795
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: If I did not have rapture ...

Post by Pondera » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:48 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
Pondera wrote:If I did not have rapture I could not sit for periods of time without wanting to get up and do something else. That, IMO, is the purpose of rapture - or the benefit of it.

I do not sit on the floor. I feel like I'm "being like a monk" if I sit on the floor. I like to sit on a chair with my decaf coffee by my side. This is much more preferable.
You sit on a chair with a cup of coffee by your side? And what are you doing apart from that?
Besides dwelling in rapture? Nothing.
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: If I did not have rapture ...

Post by acinteyyo » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:23 pm

Pondera wrote:Besides dwelling in rapture? Nothing.
I gues you are probably mistaken, unless you already are a highly developed practicioner. Because if you are not it is rather certain that your piti comes from sensuality and not from withdrawing from sensuality. The latter is what the Buddha recommended when it comes to samatha practice, not the former.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 795
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: If I did not have rapture ...

Post by Pondera » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:52 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
Pondera wrote:Besides dwelling in rapture? Nothing.
I gues you are probably mistaken, unless you already are a highly developed practicioner. Because if you are not it is rather certain that your piti comes from sensuality and not from withdrawing from sensuality. The latter is what the Buddha recommended when it comes to samatha practice, not the former.

best wishes, acinteyyo
I'm certain that it is born of the mind, the heart, and the absense of proclivity.

There is the rapture that arises from a great musical score. And this is rapture born of sensuality.

Then there is the very same rapture born out of concentration, exertion, and knowledge - without any relationship to sensuality other than it's own pleasurable results. That is the one I am speaking of.

Am I a highly developed practitioner? Nope. Do I know a thing or two about being 34 in this rotting, painfull carcass of a body? I sure do. I know all about pleasure and pain, elation and distress, piti and sukha.

Are you a highly developed practitioner? It seems as though you aren't - casting the allegation that one must be a highly developed practitioner to know any thing about rapture. Listen to Beethoven or Bach. They knew about rapture. They instilled it into their music.

There are times also when I have spoken in the past about lofty things and rapture has arisen in me and my audience.

I was once enraptured by the brilliance of a tree spirit one dark night years ago.

I have been many times enraptured by the dark teacher as he has hovered over my shoulder many a times - holding discourse with me on this occassion or that occassion - on this or that subject.

We see rapture many instances. The self induced kind is not a complicated matter. You must simply pull the right strings in the right way.
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: If I did not have rapture ...

Post by acinteyyo » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:42 pm

Pondera wrote:
acinteyyo wrote:
Pondera wrote:Besides dwelling in rapture? Nothing.
I gues you are probably mistaken, unless you already are a highly developed practicioner. Because if you are not it is rather certain that your piti comes from sensuality and not from withdrawing from sensuality. The latter is what the Buddha recommended when it comes to samatha practice, not the former.

best wishes, acinteyyo
I'm certain that it is born of the mind, the heart, and the absense of proclivity.

There is the rapture that arises from a great musical score. And this is rapture born of sensuality.

Then there is the very same rapture born out of concentration, exertion, and knowledge - without any relationship to sensuality other than it's own pleasurable results. That is the one I am speaking of.

Am I a highly developed practitioner? Nope. Do I know a thing or two about being 34 in this rotting, painfull carcass of a body? I sure do. I know all about pleasure and pain, elation and distress, piti and sukha.

Are you a highly developed practitioner? It seems as though you aren't - casting the allegation that one must be a highly developed practitioner to know any thing about rapture. Listen to Beethoven or Bach. They knew about rapture. They instilled it into their music.

There are times also when I have spoken in the past about lofty things and rapture has arisen in me and my audience.

I was once enraptured by the brilliance of a tree spirit one dark night years ago.

I have been many times enraptured by the dark teacher as he has hovered over my shoulder many a times - holding discourse with me on this occassion or that occassion - on this or that subject.

We see rapture many instances. The self induced kind is not a complicated matter. You must simply pull the right strings in the right way.
Well, then. Go on as you see fit.
best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests