Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
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Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
In the suttas, when the Buddha gets ready for sitting meditation, he crosses his legs, erects the body, and establishes the mindfulness in front. Does this simply mean, having mindfulness established. Can somebody please explain the “in front” part。
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
i believe the pali word is "parimukkham" meaning in front of the mouth/stomach. at least those are the interpretations I've heard.
Ryan
Ryan
sabbe dhammā nālaṃ abhinivesāya
"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"
"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
Detailed article with a hint of where the confusion about this word may come from
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/voc/parimukham.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/voc/parimukham.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Sekha on Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
Have a look at the linked comment, and the related .pdf:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 02#p326836
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 02#p326836
It's nothing to do with the mouth or the nose.If this is correct, then parimukhaṁ would mean “completely in front”. Also, I would translate upaṭṭhapetvā literally, thus rendering parimukhaṁ satiṁ upaṭṭhapetvā as “having established mindfulness at the forefront”, i.e., as top priority.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
Well then what do you make of this quote from the Cūḷavagga of the Vinaya Piṭaka?daverupa wrote: It's nothing to do with the mouth or the nose.
massu (śmaśru) is well known in Sanskrit to mean the beard. The interpretation given by the commentary as ure - the chest - seems wrong to me. Commentators may have interpreted the texts to justify their own practices.'Na, bhikkhave, massu parimukhaṃ kārāpetabbaṃ'
the beard is not to be done [=cut/trimmed] parimukhaṃ
(ie. wearing a moustache is not allowed)
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli
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Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
From Vism VIII.161:
Also Ven. Analayo's note from his "Satipatthana: The Direct Path to Realization":Established mindfulness in front of him (parimukhaí satií upaþþhapetvá) = having placed (þhapayitvá) mindfulness (satií) facing the meditation subject (kammaþþhánábhimukhaí). Or alternatively, the meaning can be treated here too according to the method of explanation given in the Paþisambhidá, which is this: Pari has the sense of control (pariggaha), mukhaí (lit. mouth) has the sense of outlet (niyyána), sati has the sense of establishment (upaþþhána); that is why parimukhaí satií (‘mindfulness as a controlled outlet’) is said” (Paþis I 176). The meaning of it in brief is: Having made mindfulness the outlet (from opposition, forgetfulness being thereby] controlled.4
Therefore, although to understand ―in front‖ to indicate the nostril area makes sense in relation to mindfulness of breathing, alternative ways of practice, based on a more figurative understanding of the term, cannot be categorically excluded. In fact, several modern teachers have developed successful approaches to mindfulness of breathing independent of the nostril area. Some, for example, advise their pupils to experience the breath in the chest area, others suggest observing the air element at the abdomen, while still others recommend directing awareness to the act of breathing itself, without focusing on any specific location.
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
Not much; what do you make of the linked paper?Sekha wrote:Well then what do you make of this quote from the Cūḷavagga of the Vinaya Piṭaka?daverupa wrote: It's nothing to do with the mouth or the nose.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
Your link falls back onto my quote.daverupa wrote:Not much; what do you make of the linked paper?Sekha wrote: Well then what do you make of this quote from the Cūḷavagga of the Vinaya Piṭaka?
Bhante Kumara refers to Thanissaro bhikkhu, who writes:
I am not sure what exactly motivates this conclusion from TB. As I said earlier, the Commentary to this sentence says it means ure - the chest, so it may be all there is to TB's interpretation. However, as I said earlier, it seems that the Pali word massu is derived from the Sanskrit śmaśru meaning the beard, as per the PTS Dictionary.To the fore (parimukham): The Abhidhamma takes an etymological approach to this term, defining it as around (pari-) the mouth (mukham). In the Vinaya, however, it is used in a context (Cv.V.27.4) where it undoubtedly means the front of the chest.
See also Dmytro's converging conclusion
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli
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Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
Dmytro thinks Early Buddhism is a kind of inappropriate reductionism, and he claims that Analayo's reading (and, thus, Kumara's) is without justification. So it's simply a matter of disagreement for all of us on this matter, I think.
I think a play on words came to be reified by a later tradition that lost sight of the gentle emphatic point about mindfulness being front-&-center, and instead took it as a literal method.
I think a play on words came to be reified by a later tradition that lost sight of the gentle emphatic point about mindfulness being front-&-center, and instead took it as a literal method.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
Whether the meaning is to be taken literally or not is not very easy to determine. But my point is that one simply cannot state about parimukham that "It's nothing to do with the mouth or the nose." Strong evidence suggests otherwise.daverupa wrote:I think a play on words came to be reified by a later tradition that lost sight of the gentle emphatic point about mindfulness being front-&-center, and instead took it as a literal method.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli
http://www.buddha-vacana.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.buddha-vacana.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
I wonder if it could mean that one looks on the ground couple feet away like they do in zazen? This idea just jumped into my mind when I've read this q.Strive4Karuna wrote:In the suttas, when the Buddha gets ready for sitting meditation, he crosses his legs, erects the body, and establishes the mindfulness in front. Does this simply mean, having mindfulness established. Can somebody please explain the “in front” part。
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
Thanks for that, Sekha. I think your objection is fair. Although we can't say for sure, considering the use of peyyala/repetition, it's possible that "massu" (It should be "massuṁ" actually.) should be applied as in the sentence you formed above. In case others are wondering, what we have is this:Sekha wrote:Well then what do you make of this quote from the Cūḷavagga of the Vinaya Piṭaka?daverupa wrote: It's nothing to do with the mouth or the nose.massu (śmaśru) is well known in Sanskrit to mean the beard. The interpretation given by the commentary as ure - the chest - seems wrong to me. Commentators may have interpreted the texts to justify their own practices.'Na, bhikkhave, massu parimukhaṃ kārāpetabbaṃ'
the beard is not to be done [=cut/trimmed] parimukhaṃ
(ie. wearing a moustache is not allowed)
- “na, bhikkhave, massuṁ kappāpetabbaṁ ... pe ... na massuṁ vaḍḍhāpetabbaṁ... na golomikaṁ kārāpetabbaṁ... na caturassakaṁ kārāpetabbaṁ... na parimukhaṁ kārāpetabbaṁ...(DPR has "massuṁ" as just "massu", which is grammatically wrong. I found a text which has it right: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gre ... n2cuou.htm)
- Monks, the beard is not to be made prominent.
Last edited by Kumara on Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:04 am, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
I tend to agree with David.daverupa wrote:Have a look at the linked comment, and the related .pdf:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 02#p326836
It's nothing to do with the mouth or the nose.If this is correct, then parimukhaṁ would mean “completely in front”. Also, I would translate upaṭṭhapetvā literally, thus rendering parimukhaṁ satiṁ upaṭṭhapetvā as “having established mindfulness at the forefront”, i.e., as top priority.
To me Parimukham means, stay in the present moment.
What is in the present moment. That is basically the mindfulness.
- Keep your attention on the meditation object
- Your breath
- what ever you see, hear, feel or touch in front of you.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
On second thoughts, the peyyala elision shouldn't matter. We can assume "na parimukhaṁ kārāpetabbaṁ" as a complete sentence in Pali, and translate it as "[It] is not to be made prominent." (parimukhaṁ = prominent)Kumara wrote:Although we can't say for sure, considering the use of peyyala/repetition, it's possible that "massu" (It should be "massuṁ" actually.) should be applied as in the sentence you formed above.
The commentary somehow seems to regard "parimukhaṁ" as the subject (i.e. chest hair), which it does seem odd in the context, and even in itself. So, I do agree that "massuṁ" (beard), in the context, should be the subject there.
So, I still consider, as daverupa wrote above, parimukhaṁ has "nothing to do with the mouth or the nose."
Re: Establishing Mindfulness in Front?
I've reworked my writing on the parimukhaṁ debate (Vinaya extension): viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5636&p=488612#p488612