How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Post Reply
dhammarelax
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:59 pm

How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by dhammarelax » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:55 pm

Hi, I have come across this dhamma talk by Bhante Vimalaramsi where he states (m:38) that 75% of his students are using the loving kindness and they are reaching Arupa Jhanas in seven days, has anyone heard something similar from any other teacher?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvKXaY2Dt3c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Smile all the time
dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

User avatar
Wri
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:45 am
Location: United States

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by Wri » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:27 pm

With respect,

I believe that if you are concerned with specific times it takes to reach attainments, you are directing yourself the wrong way. Perhaps limit your focus to whether the method is likely, unlikely, or useless. Worrying about how fast it will take creates impatience, which is generally a hindrance. So just try it out and see if you notice even small changes. Then stick with it. Enjoy the practice for its own sake rather than that flashy reward, and you'll get the flashy reward :tongue:

Best wishes.
Keep your mind steady and rest within the winds of experience.
May I show unconditional love to all beings.

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5719
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by Aloka » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:19 pm

Wri wrote:With respect,

I believe that if you are concerned with specific times it takes to reach attainments, you are directing yourself the wrong way.
:goodpost:

A quote from Ajahn Sumedho:
The jhanas are often spoken of in terms of 'attainment', but it's no attainment at all, it's more like abandoning, or relinquishing. Because jhana is a state when the five hindrances are suppressed or abandoned. By cultivating this spacious, expansive mind, you do actually develop the jhana factors -- like rapture, gladness, etc. -- but they arise naturally, without you trying to attain them.

https://sites.google.com/site/gavesako/ ... hn-sumedho
:anjali:

SarathW
Posts: 9175
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:45 am

:goodpost: Aloka
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
Posts: 9175
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:16 am

It is great Dhamma talk by Ven. Vimalramsi.
Very unconventional.
Thanks for the post.
:)
PS: What is the six R's he is talking about?
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

dhammarelax
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:59 pm

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by dhammarelax » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:05 am

SarathW wrote:It is great Dhamma talk by Ven. Vimalramsi.
Very unconventional.
Thanks for the post.
:)
PS: What is the six R's he is talking about?
:thinking:
Hi SarathW

This is a very short video on the six R's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeJ2LaF ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More information can be found here: http://www.dhammasukha.org/the-6rs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

smile all the time
dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

User avatar
Siha
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:44 pm

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by Siha » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:59 pm

dhammarelax wrote:Hi, I have come across this dhamma talk by Bhante Vimalaramsi where he states (m:38) that 75% of his students are using the loving kindness and they are reaching Arupa Jhanas in seven days, has anyone heard something similar from any other teacher?
I never heard anything like it in my life. A whole week of practice just to get the arupas?!? :o

I mean I've heard of "slow but sure", but this is ridiculous. Take my advice Ms Dhamma Relax and look out for a faster teacher. You need a turbo-charged thera, not a snail-paced slacker like Bhante Vimalaramsi. Any capable teacher should be able to get you to all the jhanas and arupas in about half an hour at the very most.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 19521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:53 pm

Greetings,
Siha wrote:Any capable teacher should be able to get you to all the jhanas and arupas in about half an hour at the very most.
Indeed... my lunch break only goes for half an hour or so. 8-)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2685
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by robertk » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:00 am

Siha wrote:
dhammarelax wrote:Hi, I have come across this dhamma talk by Bhante Vimalaramsi where he states (m:38) that 75% of his students are using the loving kindness and they are reaching Arupa Jhanas in seven days, has anyone heard something similar from any other teacher?
I never heard anything like it in my life. A whole week of practice just to get the arupas?!? :o

I mean I've heard of "slow but sure", but this is ridiculous. Take my advice Ms Dhamma Relax and look out for a faster teacher. You need a turbo-charged thera, not a snail-paced slacker like Bhante Vimalaramsi. Any capable teacher should be able to get you to all the jhanas and arupas in about half an hour at the very most.
:lol:

User avatar
Wri
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:45 am
Location: United States

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by Wri » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:07 am

robertk wrote:
Siha wrote:
dhammarelax wrote:Hi, I have come across this dhamma talk by Bhante Vimalaramsi where he states (m:38) that 75% of his students are using the loving kindness and they are reaching Arupa Jhanas in seven days, has anyone heard something similar from any other teacher?
I never heard anything like it in my life. A whole week of practice just to get the arupas?!? :o

I mean I've heard of "slow but sure", but this is ridiculous. Take my advice Ms Dhamma Relax and look out for a faster teacher. You need a turbo-charged thera, not a snail-paced slacker like Bhante Vimalaramsi. Any capable teacher should be able to get you to all the jhanas and arupas in about half an hour at the very most.
:lol:
True facts, I've actually gotten into a Jhana in 20 minutes once.

Once.

And it was by accident.

The first Jhana I ever had, way back in my first year of Buddhism, was much better and lasted hours.

It was also by accident.
Keep your mind steady and rest within the winds of experience.
May I show unconditional love to all beings.

dhammarelax
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:59 pm

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by dhammarelax » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:32 pm

Wri wrote:With respect,

I believe that if you are concerned with specific times it takes to reach attainments, you are directing yourself the wrong way. Perhaps limit your focus to whether the method is likely, unlikely, or useless. Worrying about how fast it will take creates impatience, which is generally a hindrance. So just try it out and see if you notice even small changes. Then stick with it. Enjoy the practice for its own sake rather than that flashy reward, and you'll get the flashy reward :tongue:

Best wishes.
Hi Wri

I am not specially concerned with the speed of the attainments, I just find this teaching to be very interesting because is a concrete and "fresh" approach.

Also I get to hear and read some passages from the Suttas that I find intriguing to say the least, for example in MN 38 "...this Dhamma which is ... immediately effective..",in MN 148 "Now while this discourse was being spoken, through not clinging the minds of sixty bhikkhus were liberated from the taints.", in MN 111 "During half a month, bhikkhus, Sariputta gained insight into states one by one as they occurred".

This Suttas seem to point in the same direction.

smile all the time
dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2451
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by manas » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:42 pm

How 'fast' can any jhana be achieved...well I'm not sure it's a race but I do know I'll take a little peace of mind over the arupa jhanas any day.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5719
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by Aloka » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:22 pm

Some comments from Ajahn Amaro's Book "Small Boat, Great Mountain" in Chapter 4 "Cessation of Consciousness":

One of the great meditation masters of Thailand, Venerable Ajahn Tate, was such an adept at concentration that, as soon as he sat down to meditate, he would go straight into arupa-jhana, formless states of absorption. It took him 12 years after he met his teacher, Venerable Ajahn Mun, to train himself not to do that and to keep his concentration at a level where he could develop insight.

In those formless states, it is just so nice. It’s easy to ask: “What’s the point of cultivating wise reflection or investigating the nature of experience? The experience itself is so seamlessly delicious, why bother?”

The reason we bother is that those are not dependable states. They are unreliable and they are not ours.

http://forestsanghapublications.org/ass ... _Amaro.pdf
:anjali:

User avatar
Siha
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:44 pm

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by Siha » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:19 am

Wri wrote:True facts, I've actually gotten into a Jhana in 20 minutes once.
Yeah? Congratulations then.

Keep working at it and I guess some day you'll be equal of my daughter's two guinea pigs. On the left is Tamara who is a master of the kasinas and on the right is Thomas who has been in a state of uninterrupted samadhi since the day he was born. As you can see, Thomas's hair has grown like that Buddha Boy in Nepal.
dhyana masters.jpg
dhyana masters.jpg (217.04 KiB) Viewed 2082 times

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5719
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by Aloka » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:23 am

Siha wrote:
Wri wrote:True facts, I've actually gotten into a Jhana in 20 minutes once.
Yeah? Congratulations then.

Keep working at it and I guess some day you'll be equal of my daughter's two guinea pigs.
:rofl:
On the left is Tamara who is a master of the kasinas and on the right is Thomas who has been in a state of uninterrupted samadhi since the day he was born. As you can see, Thomas's hair has grown like that Buddha Boy in Nepal.
Ahww,wonderful expression on Tamara's face, cant really see Thomas's unfortunately!


Thanks for sharing, Siha.

:anjali:

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 19521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: How fast can the Arupa Jhanas be achieved?

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:55 am

Greetings,
Dvayatānupassanāsutta of the Sutta Nipāta wrote:"Those beings that go to realms of form,
And those who are settled in formless realms,
Not understanding the fact of cessation,
Come back again and again to existence.
Those who, having comprehended realms of form,
Do not settle in formless realms,
Are released in the experience of cessation,
It is they that are the dispellers of death."
Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests