Radiant Mind

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 16476
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:46 pm

boris wrote: Suppose, I am a puthujjana :smile: I have some vision what is Dhamma and what is not Dhamma. Then I come to some passage which contradict all my understanding. I can explain this contradiction saying that it is because the text has suffered editorial changes. Or even to refuse accept that such Sutta comes from the Lord Buddha. By this means I can be glad and happy, that there is no contradiction in my understanding of Dhamma. And even it may be so. But unfortunately it is also quite possible, that this contradiction is due to my wrong understanding of Dhamma. With this approach, each contradiction should be interpreting as a signal that it something wrong with my understanding of Dhamma.
This is a good point, and also a good reason for talking to real-life teachers, who tend to challenge one's assumptions better than books do...

On the other hand, there is some validity in the warning against taking passages that only appear a few times in the entire canon as being supremely important. Certainly, they are useful challenges, but not necessarily the right thing to concentrate on.

:anjali:
Mike

User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6445
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by Mkoll » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:50 pm

Moreover, what we are instructed to focus on is clear and repeated over and over again in the suttas. There's so many clear instructions on what to do moment-to-moment that focusing on finding the meaning of one-off passages like the "radiant mind" seems like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Wiktionary wrote:rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic

(idiomatic) To do something pointless or insignificant that will soon be overtaken by events, or that contributes nothing to the solution of a current problem.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

boris
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by boris » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:25 am

mikenz66 wrote: Certainly, they are useful challenges, but not necessarily the right thing to concentrate on.
I agree. Such Buddha words:
But the question should not be put like that; it should be put like
this:

" 'Tell, then, where do water, earth,
Fire and air no footing find?
Where likewise the long and short,
Small and big and fair and foul?
Where is it that name-and-form
Do without remainder cease?'

And the answer thereto is this:
" 'The consciousness that makes no showing
Nor has to do with finiteness,
Claiming no being apart from all:
There it is that water, earth,
Fire and air no footing find,
And likewise the long and short,
Small and big and fair and foul;
There it is that name-and-form
Do without remainder cease
D 11

for Ven Nanamoli are
material for the nucleus of an interesting ontological study.
But it is perfectly understandable that you may not be interested in such intellectual approach, and prefer to focus you attention on practice giving up all your possessions, physical and mental, dying to the past and future. By this you may get the same results as Ven Nanamoli. Ven Nanavimala respected Ven Nanamoli as a teacher, but he has chosen the way of letting go, and his Sutta investigations weren't as deep as in the case of Ven Nanamoli.

with metta
The man who wants to avoid grotesque collapses should not look for anything to fulfill him in space and time.

Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Dinsdale
Posts: 6096
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:33 am

Sam Vara wrote: What I am interested in is the difference between "radiance perceived in a mind" and the mind being radiant. Perception of light seems to me to be of limited interest compared to how the mind behaves.
I tend to agree, there is a distinction. The phrasing "Radiant, monks, is this mind. And it is defiled by transient defilements." seems descriptive of what the mind is like, a general characteristic, not descriptive of a temporary meditative experience.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

SarathW
Posts: 10355
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by SarathW » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:59 am

I would say (for an example) a canvas (the mind) is radiant before artist start to draw (the defilements) on it.
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by kirk5a » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:49 pm

I came across this recently, from Ajahn Maha Boowa:
The Citta is "the one who knows." The true Citta has only one function, and that is "knowing." The Buddha always said that the original true Citta is clear, bright, and resplendent, but that Kilesas have become mixed or blended with it and so it follows the way of these Kilesas and has become murky. One must rely on mindfulness, wisdom, and perseverance to clean the Citta. When the Citta has gone beyond the state of clarity and brightness it will be pure, which means that it will have attained to the state of Vimutti.
The word "brightness" (Pabhassara) refers here to the state of Vatta Citta[11] which is different from Vivatta Citta. In other words Pabhassara is "clarity and brightness," but is not yet the state of purity. The brightness which comes from practice is due to the Kilesas gathering together in just one spot. When the brightness which is the most subtle of the Kilesas has been passed by (overcome) by the cleansing process of super-mindfulness (Maha-Sati) and super-wisdom (Maha-Pañña), then the Citta is pure.[12]
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... ondon.html
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

SarathW
Posts: 10355
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by SarathW » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:50 pm

What is Vatta Citta?
Is it Bhavanga Citta?
Do you have any sutta reference?
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Way~Farer
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:38 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by Way~Farer » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:27 pm

See also Consciousness Mysticism in the Discourses of the Buddha, Peter Harvey which discusses 'luminous mind'.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 16476
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:40 pm


User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by kirk5a » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:00 pm

SarathW wrote:What is Vatta Citta?
"rolling on," the "round" of existences, cycle of transmigrations, saŋsāra, evolution (=involution) (as forward or ascending circle of existences, without implying a teleological idea, in contrast to vivaṭṭa "rolling back" or devolution, i. e. a new (descending) cycle of existence in a new aeon with inverted [vi -- ] motion, so to speak) S iii.63; iv.53 (pariyādiṇṇa˚), cp. M iii.118; Th 1, 417 (sabba˚: "all constant rolling on" trsln); SnA 351 (=upādāna); DhsA 238.
http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/p ... 1:937.pali
Dogmatically vivaṭṭa is used as "absence of vaṭṭa," i. e. nibbāna or salvation from saŋsāra (see vaṭṭa & cp. citta -- vivaṭṭa, ceto˚, ñāṇa˚, vimokkha˚ at Ps i.108 & ii.70).
http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/p ... :1969.pali
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
Polar Bear
Posts: 1193
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: Bear Republic

Re: Radiant Mind

Post by Polar Bear » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:39 am

An interestng artcle on this topic by Bhikkhu Anālayo:

The Luminous Mind in Theravāda and Dharmaguptaka Discourses
Abstract:

With this article I examine Pāli discourse references to luminosity of the mind in the light of their parallels, with a view to discerning early stages in the development of a notion that has had a considerable impact on Buddhist thought and practice.
:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests