When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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identification
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When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by identification » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:32 pm

When I do breath meditation and walking meditation, pleasant sensations arise and draw my mind away from the walking and breath. When this happens ive just been going back to the breath or feet, but it doesnt feel right. I've recently heard that to get into jhana when a pleasant sensation arises your suppose to focus on it and take it as your object. In ajahn brahms book he says after you can focus on the breath 100s of times in a row without being distracted then you focus on the pleasant sensation, but the pleasant sensation arises for me after only about 3 or 4 breaths of concentration without distraction. What should I do?

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Mkoll
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by Mkoll » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:12 pm

What kind of pleasant sensations are they? How long do they arise for?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

identification
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by identification » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:44 pm

Happiness, ease. It usually just disappears when i ignore it and go back to the breath or feet.

santa100
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by santa100 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:47 am

The Vism. page 137 describes 5 levels of piti(rapture/joy/happiness): minor, momentary, showering, uplifting, and pervading. The safest approach is to continue to focus on the object of meditation until one's reached that "pervading" level of piti..

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Mkoll
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by Mkoll » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:23 am

santa100 wrote:The Vism. page 137 describes 5 levels of piti(rapture/joy/happiness): minor, momentary, showering, uplifting, and pervading. The safest approach is to continue to focus on the object of meditation until one's reached that "pervading" level of piti..
That sounds like good advice IMO.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

pegembara
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by pegembara » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:45 am

Observe the feeling arise and pass away.
"There are these three kinds of feeling: a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling, and neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. On the occasion when one feels a pleasant feeling, one does not feel either a painful feeling or a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. One feels only a pleasant feeling on that occasion. On the occasion when one feels a painful feeling, one does not feel either a pleasant feeling or a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. One feels only a painful feeling on that occasion. On the occasion when one feels a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling, one does not feel either a pleasant feeling or a painful feeling. One feels only a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling on that occasion.

"A pleasant feeling is inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing. A painful feeling is also inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing. A neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling is also inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing.

"Seeing this, an instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with pleasant feeling, disenchanted with painful feeling, disenchanted with neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. From dispassion, he is released.

Dighanaka Sutta
With metta
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

jnak
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by jnak » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:48 am

You might want to wait until you've developed your concentration further before abandoning pleasant sensations. From MN 119:
The Four Jhanas

"Furthermore, quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He permeates & pervades, suffuses & fills this very body with the rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal. Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again & again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within & without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture & pleasure born of withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

"And furthermore, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. He permeates & pervades, suffuses & fills this very body with the rapture & pleasure born of composure. Just like a lake with spring-water welling up from within, having no inflow from the east, west, north, or south, and with the skies supplying abundant showers time & again, so that the cool fount of water welling up from within the lake would permeate & pervade, suffuse & fill it with cool waters, there being no part of the lake unpervaded by the cool waters; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture & pleasure born of composure. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture & pleasure born of composure. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

"And furthermore, with the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' He permeates & pervades, suffuses & fills this very body with the pleasure divested of rapture. Just as in a lotus pond, some of the lotuses, born & growing in the water, stay immersed in the water and flourish without standing up out of the water, so that they are permeated & pervaded, suffused & filled with cool water from their roots to their tips, and nothing of those lotuses would be unpervaded with cool water; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the pleasure divested of rapture. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded with pleasure divested of rapture. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

"And furthermore, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain. He sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. Just as if a man were sitting covered from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by pure, bright awareness. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.
As for how one "permeates & pervades, suffuses & fills" the body with rapture & pleasure, well that's something to work out. I've read that statement by Ajaan Brahm that one substitutes the feeling for the breath as the meditation object and that doesn't seem quite right to me. In the Anapanasati Sutta, the Buddha never mentions switching out the breath for another meditation object. In fact just the opposite, he speaks about how mindful attention to the breath brings the Four Frames of Reference to culmination.

I'm just a knucklehead that struggles through his morning meditation and Ajaan Brahm is, well Ajaan Brahm. But, we all have to work this out in our own meditations, so I think that it's worth thinking about.

What I'm working on is sensitivity to the body while maintaining unflagging awareness of the breath, allowing rapture and pleasure to develop. My current hypothesis is that the only way for rapture and pleasure to pervade the body is to maintain and develop that sensitivity without giving up the factors that resulted in the development of rapture and pleasure in the first place. If that made a lick of sense.

I often think of meditating as being like one of those guys I used to see on TV spinning all these plates on sticks. You get one factor going, then the next, and the next, then double back to make sure that you keep the first plates spinning. But, when you get it all going in the right direction, wow!

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"...I'm not much of an expert when it comes to the texts. I've simply learned a few parts, and put them into practice." Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo

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Ben
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by Ben » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:46 am

Since you are interested in cultivating samatha, then the advice given by Santa below is spot on the money.
You need to understand that as you train yourself and develop samatha, different types of distractions will manifest at different times. Just return to the object and maintain your awareness.
Kind regards,
Ben
santa100 wrote:The Vism. page 137 describes 5 levels of piti(rapture/joy/happiness): minor, momentary, showering, uplifting, and pervading. The safest approach is to continue to focus on the object of meditation until one's reached that "pervading" level of piti..
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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PadmeSamadhi
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by PadmeSamadhi » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:28 am

identification, I try not to block, grasp, pull, push, destroy or else, I simply cut through the fascination for xxxxxxxx (you name it) and let it be. Cutting through the fascination is my thing, I don't know if I will keep doing this in the future, but for now it is being just perfect for me.
This cutting through is pretty much "letting go" and letting the fascination crumble.

This is not a teaching, ok? This is exclusively my personal experience on the matter, so it can contain flaws, but take a look at this:
I don't try to avoid desire or aversion, I cut the fascination for desire or aversion.
I don't try to avoid hope or fear, I cut the fascination for hope or fear.
I don't try to avoid thoughts, I cut the fascination for thoughts.
I don't try to avoid memories, I cut the fascination for memories.
I don't try to avoid physical sensations, I cut the fascination for physical sensations.
I don't try to avoid manifestations I perceive with the six senses, I cut the fascination for the manifestations I sense.
I don't try to avoid grasping the meditative state, I cut the fascination for meditative state so I don't reborn in other realms.
I don't try to avoid non-thought, I cut the fascination for non-thought so I don't reborn in other realms.
What I can't cut is my true nature.
And that is it, nowadays I'm doing this one time or another, for me at least it is quite good for getting in a meditative state just by reading it.
Thanks.

I don't have much knowledge, but I learning a bit from the book "A Guide To Happy Life" by Phra Mahā Singhathon Narāsabho

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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by Dhamma_Bum » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:20 pm

What I'm working on is sensitivity to the body while maintaining unflagging awareness of the breath, allowing rapture and pleasure to develop. My current hypothesis is that the only way for rapture and pleasure to pervade the body is to maintain and develop that sensitivity without giving up the factors that resulted in the development of rapture and pleasure in the first place. If that made a lick of sense.

That's what I try to do!
:anjali:

jnak
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by jnak » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:07 am

Dhamma_Bum wrote: That's what I try to do!
:anjali:
Just out of curiosity, how's that working out for you?
"...I'm not much of an expert when it comes to the texts. I've simply learned a few parts, and put them into practice." Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo

Dhamma_Bum
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by Dhamma_Bum » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:52 am

jnak wrote:
Dhamma_Bum wrote: That's what I try to do!
:anjali:
Just out of curiosity, how's that working out for you?
ok as long as i keep all the plates spinning! (i think maybe we learned this from the same teacher)

understanding27
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Re: When a pleasant feeling arises, then what?

Post by understanding27 » Mon May 11, 2015 10:00 pm

I don't try to avoid desire or aversion, I cut the fascination for desire or aversion.
I don't try to avoid hope or fear, I cut the fascination for hope or fear.
I don't try to avoid thoughts, I cut the fascination for thoughts.
I don't try to avoid memories, I cut the fascination for memories.
I don't try to avoid physical sensations, I cut the fascination for physical sensations.
I don't try to avoid manifestations I perceive with the six senses, I cut the fascination for the manifestations I sense.
I don't try to avoid grasping the meditative state, I cut the fascination for meditative state so I don't reborn in other realms.
I don't try to avoid non-thought, I cut the fascination for non-thought so I don't reborn in other realms.
What I can't cut is my true nature.
Great one

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