when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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lotus flower
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when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:26 am

Hello all.

blue and white bright lights comes sometimes while i am in deep breathing samadhi. so i focus on the breathing and bright light comes sometimes. maybe these are nimittas. so all what we need to do is focus on the nimitta? see the nimitta? i know the seventh capter of this book: Ajahn Brahm: Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond - A Meditator’s Handbook. it gives a lot of advices about how to keep the nimitta and how go to jhana from keeping nimitta. does anybody knows this book? what do you think about it? can you share online books here about how to keep the nimitta and how go to jhana from nimitta? Thank you. i would like know more about this all.

and my question is all what we need to do is focus on the nimitta and try keep the nimitta?
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

lotus flower
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:09 pm

i am talking about when the meditator see lights (nimittas) at the higher anapanasati stages. so when nimittas comes then only focus on the nimitta and keep the nimitta? keeping seems as very hard. can anybody share anything about nimitta (article or book) from a teacher?
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

thepea
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by thepea » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:08 pm

If an experience leads to happiness then this is good, and beneficial.
Be careful the danger craving for particular experience.
See that all experience is impermanent and unsatisfactory by nature.
This will lead to disenchantment and further insights into no-self.

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cooran
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by cooran » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:53 pm

Hello lotus flower, all,

This article may be of assistance:

The Mystery of the Breath Nimitta by Bhikkhu Sona
http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/nimitta.html

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

EmptyShadow
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by EmptyShadow » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:21 pm

lotus flower wrote: can anybody share anything about nimitta (article or book) from a teacher?
Here's a quote from Pa-Auk Sayadaw's book
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/know-see.pdf
When you have reached this stage it is important
to not play with your nimitta. Do not let it go away, and
do not intentionally change its shape or appearance. If
you do, your concentration will not develop any further,
and your progress will stop. Your nimitta will probably
disappear. So when your nimitta first appears, do not
move your mind from the breath to the nimitta. If you
do, you will find it disappears.
If you find that the nimitta is stable, and your
mind by itself has become fixed on it, then just leave
your mind there. If you force your mind to come away
from it, you will probably lose your concentration.
If your nimitta appears far away in front of you,
ignore it, as it will probably disappear. If you ignore it, and
simply concentrate on the breath at the place where the
breath touches, the nimitta will come and stay there.
Ajahn Brahm have very similar approach about the nimitta
Here's a quote from his book "The Jhanas"
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books/Ajahn_ ... Jhanas.pdf
When Nimitta Come Up Early
Sometimes, a “light” can appear in the mind at a very early stage of
meditation. However, for all except accomplished meditators, one will
find that such “brazen intruders” are highly unstable. If one focuses
one’s attention on them, one will not get anywhere. It is not the right
time for nimitta. It is better to regard them as distractions and go back
to the main task of the early stage.
Ignore the Nimitta at First. It is more uncertain what to do when a
nimitta appears at the stage of the beautiful breath, when the breath has
yet to be calmed to disappearance. Again, the nimitta appears intrusive,
It interferes with the main task of sustaining one’s awareness on the
beautiful breath. If one deliberately turns away from the breath and on
to the nimitta, it usually doesn’t remain long. The mind is not refined
enough yet to hold a subtle nimitta. One needs to practice on the breath
more. So the best thing to do is to ignore the nimitta and let all one’s
attention train on the beautiful breath.
Often having followed this advice, the nimitta comes back, stronger and
brighter. Ignore it again. When It returns a third time, even more
powerfully and radiant, go back to the breath. Practicing this way,
eventually a hugely powerful and brilliant nimitta will break into your
awareness. You can go with that one. Actually, it is almost impossible
to ignore. That one usually takes you into jhana.

lotus flower
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:43 am

Thank you :buddha1:
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

lotus flower
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:57 am

EmptyShadow wrote:
lotus flower wrote: can anybody share anything about nimitta (article or book) from a teacher?
Here's a quote from Pa-Auk Sayadaw's book
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/know-see.pdf
When you have reached this stage it is important
to not play with your nimitta. Do not let it go away, and
do not intentionally change its shape or appearance. If
you do, your concentration will not develop any further,
and your progress will stop. Your nimitta will probably
disappear. So when your nimitta first appears, do not
move your mind from the breath to the nimitta. If you
do, you will find it disappears.
If you find that the nimitta is stable, and your
mind by itself has become fixed on it, then just leave
your mind there. If you force your mind to come away
from it, you will probably lose your concentration.
If your nimitta appears far away in front of you,
ignore it, as it will probably disappear. If you ignore it, and
simply concentrate on the breath at the place where the
breath touches, the nimitta will come and stay there.
Ajahn Brahm have very similar approach about the nimitta
Here's a quote from his book "The Jhanas"
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books/Ajahn_ ... Jhanas.pdf
When Nimitta Come Up Early
Sometimes, a “light” can appear in the mind at a very early stage of
meditation. However, for all except accomplished meditators, one will
find that such “brazen intruders” are highly unstable. If one focuses
one’s attention on them, one will not get anywhere. It is not the right
time for nimitta. It is better to regard them as distractions and go back
to the main task of the early stage.
Ignore the Nimitta at First. It is more uncertain what to do when a
nimitta appears at the stage of the beautiful breath, when the breath has
yet to be calmed to disappearance. Again, the nimitta appears intrusive,
It interferes with the main task of sustaining one’s awareness on the
beautiful breath. If one deliberately turns away from the breath and on
to the nimitta, it usually doesn’t remain long. The mind is not refined
enough yet to hold a subtle nimitta. One needs to practice on the breath
more. So the best thing to do is to ignore the nimitta and let all one’s
attention train on the beautiful breath.
Often having followed this advice, the nimitta comes back, stronger and
brighter. Ignore it again. When It returns a third time, even more
powerfully and radiant, go back to the breath. Practicing this way,
eventually a hugely powerful and brilliant nimitta will break into your
awareness. You can go with that one. Actually, it is almost impossible
to ignore. That one usually takes you into jhana.
Hello, thank you. but Ajahn Brahm writes in another book about the anapanasati stages. He writes about how keep the nimitta in his book: Mindfulness, Bliss, And Beyond: A Meditator's Handbook

at the seven chapter he writes how keep the nimitta, and how see the nimitta. he writes don't want hold the nimitta, let go the "ego", let go the control, and just give the control to the nimitta and see it not strong. he says it is important that give the control to the nimitta - we don't control the nimitta, and don't force the focus on the nimitta. we shouldn't want drive the nimitta or the focus on the nimitta. the nimitta be the driver. i see his advices as very useful to me but if i will find that the nimitta often disapear then i will do what you shared .
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

EmptyShadow
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:34 pm

Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by EmptyShadow » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:53 pm

Since the term nimitta, as we use it, comes from the Visuddhimagga, according to it there are 2 types of nimitta. The uggaha-nimitta (taken-up sign or learning sign) which is usually dull, unstable, may move around or keep appearing and disapearing. The advice not to pay attention to it and keep your focus on the breath is applied to this nimitta.

When the nimitta becomes patibhāga-nimitta (counterpart sign) that is bright, clear and stable then you have to take it as your meditation object and use it to enter jhana. I assume that the advise you quote from ajahn Brahm is towards the second type.

lotus flower
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:26 pm

EmptyShadow wrote:Since the term nimitta, as we use it, comes from the Visuddhimagga, according to it there are 2 types of nimitta. The uggaha-nimitta (taken-up sign or learning sign) which is usually dull, unstable, may move around or keep appearing and disapearing. The advice not to pay attention to it and keep your focus on the breath is applied to this nimitta.

When the nimitta becomes patibhāga-nimitta (counterpart sign) that is bright, clear and stable then you have to take it as your meditation object and use it to enter jhana. I assume that the advise you quote from ajahn Brahm is towards the second type.
Not only the second type. he writes about not bright (weak) nimittas also. and he writes about disapearing nimittas also. he writes about why nimittas disapear and what can do for keeping nimitta.

my teacher said i try take up the bright light - only the really bright light.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

EmptyShadow
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by EmptyShadow » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Sorry I dont have his book "Mindfulness, Bliss, And Beyond: A Meditator's Handbook" and I can't comment what he writes there why he would contradict himself.
To me the advise your teacher gave you seems more sound.

Btw congratulations on your good progress in meditation. I'm sure that with more practice you will figure out how to progress further on the way. :clap:

lotus flower
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:27 pm

EmptyShadow wrote:Sorry I dont have his book "Mindfulness, Bliss, And Beyond: A Meditator's Handbook" and I can't comment what he writes there why he would contradict himself.
To me the advise your teacher gave you seems more sound.

Btw congratulations on your good progress in meditation. I'm sure that with more practice you will figure out how to progress further on the way. :clap:
i tried search the full book on the internet but it is not in any online format. i found only downloads. he writes in his book that fear or agitation can break the nimitta. but thank you for the quotes which you shared - these will can be useful to me in the future - yet i don't know. so thank you for the help :anjali: may you be well, much metta.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

lotus flower
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:40 pm

thepea wrote:If an experience leads to happiness then this is good, and beneficial.
Be careful the danger craving for particular experience.
See that all experience is impermanent and unsatisfactory by nature.
This will lead to disenchantment and further insights into no-self.
Yes, you are very true. we all need practice vipassana, not only samatha meditation.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

lotus flower
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:41 pm

cooran wrote:Hello lotus flower, all,

This article may be of assistance:

The Mystery of the Breath Nimitta by Bhikkhu Sona
http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/nimitta.html

With metta,
Chris
and thank you for you also, Chris
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

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now realm
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by now realm » Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:46 pm

Hi there lotus flower,

Interesting.. I've not read Ajahn Brahm's book either on "mindfulness bliss and beyond". I'm curious to know the jhana that is mentioned in the book. Is it the 4 jhanas in the 8fold noble path or the 5th - 8th jhanas i.e. neither perception nor non perception and thereon that he is referring? Did Ajahn Brahm elaborate on the jhanas that he said to have entered? So far I'm only reading here about nimitta but nothing said on the jhanas. Any link or thread here on the jhanas after nimitta? Appreciate any link to that. Much gratitude.

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mikenz66
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:49 pm

You can download the first few chapters of Ajhan Brahm's book. See this thread: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 37#p296291

:anjali:
Mike

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now realm
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by now realm » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:35 am

Greetings Mike,

Thank you for above, will certainly check it out. *grateful*

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khemindas
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by khemindas » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:28 am

I found interested thing.

Buddhagosa :

215. It appears to some like a star or a cluster of gems or a cluster of pearls, to others with a rough touch like that of silk-cotton seeds or a peg made of heartwood, to others like a long braid string or a wreath of flowers or a puff of smoke, to others like a stretched-out cobweb or a film of cloud or a lotus flower or a chariot wheel or the moon's disk or the sun's disk. [Underlining mine].

lotus flower
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Re: when nimitta comes what we should do? see the nimitta?

Post by lotus flower » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:58 pm

Ajahn Brahm advices are IF THE NIMITTA DISAPRARS SOON IT IS -because the mind is agitated . the success is make the mind to be calm = dont want keep the nimitta too strong. dont craving. be the nimitta the driver. another possible opportunity is the mind is not trained enough to keep a nimitta. dont move to the nim
itta too eatly from the breathing. practice on the breathing until the mindfullness be strong . dont pay
attention to nimittas. make the mindfullness be strong by focus on the breathing. strong mindfullness can happens only after one hour. thenmove to the nimitta. strong mindfullness can keep the nimitta longer. i do it. i start eith focus on the breathing. i practice on the breathing at least one hour and then move to nimitta. but my nimittas always disapear around one minute and i dont know why.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

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