does anyone know of good asubha resources?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
SEC201482
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by SEC201482 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:16 pm

lostitude wrote:The interesting thing about this is that those medical practitioners who carry out the autopsies, and medical students who have to dissect dead bodies, will never tell you that they are not attracted to their partners anymore. So I guess the way that kind of meditation is performed is much more important than the material at hand.
Good point. Speaking for myself, I came to the conclusions of asubha meditation years before I even knew anything about Buddhism. I suspect lots of people understand this subconsciously. There is some deep contradiction between sexual attraction and the true nature of the body. There is cognitive dissonance involved:

http://www.salon.com/2001/02/26/loo/

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Nibbana
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by Nibbana » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:28 pm

Hello friends,

This is a timelapse of the decomposition of the human body.

"https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5bd_1306689849"

Just found this and it will be added to my daily reflections, hopefully this will eliminate the craving for forms once and for all.

:anjali:
"Then you understand the brilliance of the Buddha's teaching of anatta, goes right to the heart of everything. They say the Dhamma is the source, not going to it's consequences not papancha, but going right into the very middle, the very essence, the very heart, the atta what you take to be you. From the body into the mind thinking, from the mind into the doer, from the doer into the knower. You can see you're not the knower, you can see you're not the doer..."

-Ajahn Brahm

perkele
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by perkele » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:37 am

There are these video links in this post from the famous Porn Free for 90 Days thread (oh... fond memories... :P):
perkele wrote:Coronal flythrough of the female pelvis:
http://vhp.med.umich.edu/PelvisCorA4b.mov
http://vhp.med.umich.edu/VHPelBB.rm
http://vhp.med.umich.edu/CPelvis.wmv

Sagittal flythrough of the female pelvis:
http://vhp.med.umich.edu/sag4.mov

Transverse flythrough of the female pelvis:
http://vhp.med.umich.edu/trans4.mov

Some more on http://vhp.med.umich.edu/movies2.html
I think they are fascinating, and very sober, no "shock" imagery, yet perfectly useful for ruining sexual appetite.


:anjali:
Last edited by perkele on Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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aflatun
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by aflatun » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:58 am

lostitude wrote:The interesting thing about this is that those medical practitioners who carry out the autopsies, and medical students who have to dissect dead bodies, will never tell you that they are not attracted to their partners anymore. So I guess the way that kind of meditation is performed is much more important than the material at hand.
Most of us in medicine and in medical subspecialties that work with the dead body or its dismembered parts regularly go through a phase (or phases) when we feel those things (lack of attraction for partners, etc) but eventually its not difficult to compartmentalize and not let the gravity of the experience "sink in" anymore. Like anything else you can decondition/condition a given response, the mind's potential is truly remarkable.

Also, one can obviously focus on the sheer complexity, bizarreness, beauty etc of the human insides as well. You choose your frame of reference, or lens, like anything else. For my part when I'm exposed to it I deliberately open up to the themes of mortality, foulness, etc, but I consider myself Buddhist and so I'm "looking for that." Its a remarkably powerful tool for letting go, dispassion and samadhi I believe, but again easily lost without persistence and discipline in other areas.

Two interesting related examples:

A colleague of mine was unable to "go near his wife" for days after performing his first pelvic examination (on a "model patient," people who are paid to help teach medical students how to perform things like pelvic exams, etc). He was revolted, apparently by looking at female anatomy from a purely 'medical' point of view. He found the living body bad enough :)

I've heard people complain that performing autopsies "makes them really hungry." The explanation is obvious and its quite disgusting (to me). For my part I can't help but notice how disgusting and savage the act of consuming other animals (let alone anything) is after these experiences and often have to basically dissociate, compartmentalize, etc to continue eating normally etc.
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

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Dhammanando
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:48 am

aflatun wrote:Most of us in medicine and in medical subspecialties that work with the dead body or its dismembered parts regularly go through a phase (or phases) when we feel those things (lack of attraction for partners, etc) but eventually its not difficult to compartmentalize and not let the gravity of the experience "sink in" anymore. Like anything else you can decondition/condition a given response, the mind's potential is truly remarkable.
In his Buddhist Meditation and Depth Psychology the American psychiatrist (and Buddhist) Dr. Douglas Burns also remarks to the same effect:

  • A cartoon in an American medical magazine shows four senior medical students standing together. Three are engaged in active conversation. Only the remaining one turns his head to take notice of a pretty nurse. The caption beneath the cartoon reads: "Guess which one has not done twelve pelvic examinations today." It is doubtful that many persons outside of the medical profession will appreciate the meaning, but to medical students and interns it speaks a reality. During his months of training in obstetrics and gynecology the medical trainee must spend many hours engaged in examining and handling the most repulsive aspects of female genitals. As a result he finds the female body becoming less attractive and his sexual urges diminishing. During my own years as a medical student and intern, this observation was repeatedly confirmed by the comments of my co-workers, both married and single. As we have seen, the same principle is utilized in the sections of the Discourse on repulsiveness and the cemetery meditations.

    Other aspects of scientific and medical training can produce results similar to those sought in the latter three body meditations. Chemistry, biochemistry, and histology foster an objective way of viewing the body which is virtually identical to the contemplation of elements. Anatomy, of course, is similar to the contemplation of repulsiveness. And in hospital training the persistent encounter with old age, debilitation, and death continuously reinforces the words of the cemetery meditations: "Verily, also my own body is of the same nature; such it will become and will not escape it." Similarly, in order to acquire a vivid mental image of the cemetery meditations, Buddhist monks occasionally visit graveyards to behold corpses in various stages of decay. However, such experiences bear fruit only if one takes advantage of them and avoids the temptation to ignore and forget.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el088.html

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cjmacie
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by cjmacie » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:26 am

Nearly 10 years ago the then quarterly publication "Inquiring Mind" ran an issue on the topic, under the heading "Heavenly Messengers"

Don't know if the content has been digitalized yet (when the publication ceased recently there was talk of eventually doing so). Here's the table of contents:
http://www.inquiringmind.com/CoverPopups/25-1.html

I recall this rather vivid article written by someone who was fascinated by, found decomposition sort of beautiful:
"Decompositon -- A dead body, left to decompose, constitutes a unique and complex ecosystem,” writes environmental educator Joanne Lauck, as she reveals the enthusiastic frenzy of a body breaking down."

This page does link to the text of one of the articles ("Our Practice Column: It's Like This by Ajahn Sumedho"):
http://www.inquiringmind.com/Articles/ItsLikeThis.html

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Dhammanando
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:58 am

Going through the thread I see that no-one’s mentioned Jonathan Swift yet. When I was a child my first ever exposure to the concept of asubha came from reading Swift’s close-up account of the Brobdingnagian Maids of Honour going about their toilet in Gulliver’s Travels. And so in the present thread I should like to propose as a “Good Asubha Resource” The Lady’s Dressing Room, Swift’s no-holds-barred account of Strephon’s disenchantment when he went peeping in his beloved Celia’s closet.

Jack Lynch’s annotated version


Women, however, may prefer this modern adaptation in which the maligned Celia gets a chance to reply to Strephon:




While the easily triggered may prefer the equally satirical (though poetically and asubhaically inferior) response to Swift by The Lady Mary Wortley Montagu:

The Reasons that Induced Dr S. to write a Poem call'd the Lady's Dressing room

*

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Sam Vara
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:59 am

Thank you for the Swift, Bhante. It is far more effective than grainy shots of decomposing corpses.

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aflatun
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by aflatun » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:13 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
aflatun wrote:Most of us in medicine and in medical subspecialties that work with the dead body or its dismembered parts regularly go through a phase (or phases) when we feel those things (lack of attraction for partners, etc) but eventually its not difficult to compartmentalize and not let the gravity of the experience "sink in" anymore. Like anything else you can decondition/condition a given response, the mind's potential is truly remarkable.
In his Buddhist Meditation and Depth Psychology the American psychiatrist (and Buddhist) Dr. Douglas Burns also remarks to the same effect:

  • A cartoon in an American medical magazine shows four senior medical students standing together. Three are engaged in active conversation. Only the remaining one turns his head to take notice of a pretty nurse. The caption beneath the cartoon reads: "Guess which one has not done twelve pelvic examinations today." It is doubtful that many persons outside of the medical profession will appreciate the meaning, but to medical students and interns it speaks a reality. During his months of training in obstetrics and gynecology the medical trainee must spend many hours engaged in examining and handling the most repulsive aspects of female genitals. As a result he finds the female body becoming less attractive and his sexual urges diminishing. During my own years as a medical student and intern, this observation was repeatedly confirmed by the comments of my co-workers, both married and single. As we have seen, the same principle is utilized in the sections of the Discourse on repulsiveness and the cemetery meditations.

    Other aspects of scientific and medical training can produce results similar to those sought in the latter three body meditations. Chemistry, biochemistry, and histology foster an objective way of viewing the body which is virtually identical to the contemplation of elements. Anatomy, of course, is similar to the contemplation of repulsiveness. And in hospital training the persistent encounter with old age, debilitation, and death continuously reinforces the words of the cemetery meditations: "Verily, also my own body is of the same nature; such it will become and will not escape it." Similarly, in order to acquire a vivid mental image of the cemetery meditations, Buddhist monks occasionally visit graveyards to behold corpses in various stages of decay. However, such experiences bear fruit only if one takes advantage of them and avoids the temptation to ignore and forget.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el088.html
Thank you Bhante, I wasn't aware of Dr. Burns, it was a good read!

:anjali:
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:21 pm

Thanks for sharing Alfatun :goodpost: !

One can see a picture of some prince in fine clothing and almost immediately think how rediculous it is to decorate an oozing pile of decaying meat, blood and fecies if one grasps the sign in a certain way on occasion. It seems indeed to be about changing how things things are cognized by repeated reasoning and conviction, the truth is too easy to ignore without it.

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Nibbana
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by Nibbana » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:10 am

Here is an autopsy performed on a woman with breast implants.

How much suffering there is involved to fit the ideal image, certainly for women. It is truly heartbreaking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYDguAAmMT0

:anjali:
"Then you understand the brilliance of the Buddha's teaching of anatta, goes right to the heart of everything. They say the Dhamma is the source, not going to it's consequences not papancha, but going right into the very middle, the very essence, the very heart, the atta what you take to be you. From the body into the mind thinking, from the mind into the doer, from the doer into the knower. You can see you're not the knower, you can see you're not the doer..."

-Ajahn Brahm

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aflatun
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by aflatun » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:36 pm

R1111 wrote:Thanks for sharing Alfatun :goodpost: !

One can see a picture of some prince in fine clothing and almost immediately think how rediculous it is to decorate an oozing pile of decaying meat, blood and fecies if one grasps the sign in a certain way on occasion. It seems indeed to be about changing how things things are cognized by repeated reasoning and conviction, the truth is too easy to ignore without it.
My pleasure :)
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:53 am

Atlas of Forensic Pathology
The book is amazing and as graphic as it gets i think, especially nice pictures of choking on food:) expensive tho 350-450$ on amazon.
An Atlas of Forensic Pathology
Another similar book at 1/3 the price but i have not seen the content.
Also this forum https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/
:twothumbsup:
Last edited by R1111 = rightviewftw on Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:31 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnXr36a ... ture=share
Discusses Asubha & Death Contemplations starting @23:40

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TLCD96
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Post by TLCD96 » Sun May 28, 2017 3:35 pm

Ajahn Karunadhammo from Abhayagiri gave a wonderful (and light) talk on Asubha practice. To me it has a sort of guided-meditation feel:

http://www.abhayagiri.org/audio/talking ... toothpaste
All of us are bound by birth, aging, and death.

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