Is jhana a dream or real?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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confusedlayman
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Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by confusedlayman »

jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness.. is jhana is dream or rreal or lucid dream ?
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 pm
jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness.. is jhana is dream or rreal or lucid dream ?
You are still conscious in Jhana. You aren’t unconscious so no, it’s not a dream.
“For that is false, bhikkhu, which has a deceptive nature, and that is true which has an undeceptive nature—Nibbāna. Therefore a bhikkhu possessing this truth possesses the supreme foundation of truth. For this, bhikkhu, is the supreme noble truth, namely, Nibbāna, which has an undeceptive nature.” MN 140

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DooDoot
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 pm
jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness..
The above is completely totally 100% 1,000% 10,000% 100,000% wrong. Jhana is luminous wakefulness & alertness. If the mind could enter jhana in standing posture, the body probably would not fall over but remain standing for many hours.
With the fading of rapture I remained in equanimity, mindful & alert and physically sensitive of pleasure. I entered & remained in the third jhana, of which the noble ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.'

I entered & remained in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain.... When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady & attained to imperturbability...

MN 19
When people take the drug cocaine, they remain awake for many hours, with rapture. If so, why would the rapture of jhana be different? :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

SteRo
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 pm
jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness.. is jhana is dream or rreal or lucid dream ?
Practice mindfulness of discursiveness and when such thoughts arise just stop them and don't post.

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confusedlayman
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by confusedlayman »

DooDoot wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:24 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 pm
jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness..
The above is completely totally 100% 1,000% 10,000% 100,000% wrong. Jhana is luminous wakefulness & alertness. If the mind could enter jhana in standing posture, the body probably would not fall over but remain standing for many hours.
With the fading of rapture I remained in equanimity, mindful & alert and physically sensitive of pleasure. I entered & remained in the third jhana, of which the noble ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.'

I entered & remained in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain.... When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady & attained to imperturbability...

MN 19
When people take the drug cocaine, they remain awake for many hours, with rapture. If so, why would the rapture of jhana be different? :smile:
Mind cannot enter jhana in standing posture and body wont stand like that lol....
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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confusedlayman
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:27 am
confusedlayman wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 pm
jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness.. is jhana is dream or rreal or lucid dream ?
Practice mindfulness of discursiveness and when such thoughts arise just stop them and don't post.
what does discrusiveness means? cant understand.
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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confusedlayman
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:11 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 pm
jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness.. is jhana is dream or rreal or lucid dream ?
You are still conscious in Jhana. You aren’t unconscious so no, it’s not a dream.
there is awareness but no 5 sence and no deep sleep too.. sometimes its like a dream like ...
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

SteRo
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:46 am
SteRo wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:27 am
confusedlayman wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 pm
jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness.. is jhana is dream or rreal or lucid dream ?
Practice mindfulness of discursiveness and when such thoughts arise just stop them and don't post.
what does discrusiveness means? cant understand.
Mind chatter of "monkey mind"

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DooDoot
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:45 am
Mind cannot enter jhana in standing posture and body wont stand like that lol....
what is "lol" is the above baseless opinion :smile:

how much standing meditation have u done in ur life? :shrug:

probably none- zero :mrgreen:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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confusedlayman
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by confusedlayman »

DooDoot wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:33 am
confusedlayman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:45 am
Mind cannot enter jhana in standing posture and body wont stand like that lol....
what is "lol" is the above baseless opinion :smile:

how much standing meditation have u done in ur life? :shrug:

probably none- zero :mrgreen:
because there is no use in doing standing meditation when i can benifit from sitting or sleeping posture more comfortably...
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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Zom
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by Zom »

Once jhana is attained, normal wakefulness will be considered by yourself as a sleeping state in comparison with jhana -)

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DooDoot
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:37 am
because there is no use in doing standing meditation when i can benifit from sitting or sleeping posture more comfortably...
the buddha taught four postures for meditation. regardless, jhana is not like sleep
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

Pulsar
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by Pulsar »

SteRo wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 4:27 am
confusedlayman wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 pm
jhana occurs between wakefulness and sleep where 5 sence dont use and no deep sleep where no awareness.. is jhana is dream or rreal or lucid dream ?
Practice mindfulness of discursiveness and when such thoughts arise just stop them and don't post.
what does discrusiveness means? cant understand.
SteRo you must not be unkind to Confusedlayman, and ask him not to post his thoughts, he is like a little brother asking questions, it is up to the big brother to be patient, and help him out.
When he reveals what he thinks, then others can help him.

Dear Confused
discursiveness means mind's tendency to wander from one non-fruitful thought to another,
which
gets in the way of mindfulness according to Samma Sati or Samma Samadhi.
What Zom wrote
Once jhana is attained, normal wakefulness will be considered by yourself as a sleeping state in comparison with jhana -)
is excellent
Pay attention, meditate on that for a few moments, for a few days
if it needs...You are plain adorable.
With love :candle:

santa100
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by santa100 »

confusedlayman wrote:is jhana is dream or rreal or lucid dream ?
According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Definition of dream wrote:a series of thoughts, images, or emotions occurring during sleep
So, No, jhana is not dream, for during jhanas, one has no thoughts(might still have Vitakka-Vicara, but they're no ordinary kinds of thoughts), no images, no emotion, and most definitely no sleeping.

Srilankaputra
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Re: Is jhana a dream or real?

Post by Srilankaputra »

Robertk once wrote,
All kusala cittas actually have sati accompanying them, but the sati of satipatthana is also associateed with wisdom (sam-pajana), and a rather special wisdom as it - to some degree - understands the anattaness of elements. And this too can be confirmed in reality.
So I guess you are seeing the anattaness/emptiness/hollowness of the elements/khandhas/namarupa.

One monk said, seeing of anattaness of a putujjana is like a man going in to a room and seeing it empty but not realising it was not empty, he was in the room. It still is not that encompassing paññā that is able to make a difference. I guess with practice a moment will arise where the realisation hits like a ton of bricks, ie Magga-paññā.
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

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