Jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:20 pm

Auto wrote
In one word you have to find the self in order to get liberated from being dependent on spiritual pleasures.
This is where you and I differ, using pronouns for ease of communication.
You are leaning towards uniting with Brahma, the ultimate SELF.

Buddha who was born to this culture, walked away from that notion.
He practically shredded the notion of self to smithereens.
It is impossible for the puthujjana to do this, when he tries to dismantle the 'self'
or not hear the sound of music, he feels like he is falling into an abyss, and tries
to hold onto a lifeline, so he may survive, that is called Bhavatanha.
Pulsar wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:31 am
Wiping away the notion of 'I' or 'mine' is not easy but until we come up with the courage to do so
Above, still holds true

You wrote
i think you need find the destination of your actions, where your attabhava is present in the future/āyatiṃ. By following sense of self maybe.
Auto thinks so, since Auto still experience sakkayaditti.
Be well! :candle:

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:41 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:20 pm
This is where you and I differ, using pronouns for ease of communication.
You are leaning towards uniting with Brahma, the ultimate SELF.
Whatever it is, before you name it, it is something. That thing feels important. Maybe if you would feel it you would identify it with something else and that's why you have such aversion to it.

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:39 am

Dear Auto you wrote
Whatever it is, before you name it, it is something
Is it not possible that there was nothing, before Pulsar named it, and that it
were built up to be something, when there was really nothing, or it was always otherwise, than
what was thought by you.
You also wrote
That thing feels important. Maybe if you would feel it you would identify it with something else and that's why you have such aversion to it
If that is how that thought crossed, I apologize... Pulsar's expressions are not always on the
mark, sometimes I do not think it through before expressing, say due to many other
pressing tasks on hand. As for aversion, I try not to have longings or aversions, to the best of my ability.
With love :candle:

auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:39 am
If that is how that thought across, I apologize... Pulsar's expressions are not always on the
mark,
important for making progress.
Pulsar wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:39 am
Is it not possible that there was nothing, before Pulsar named it, and that it
were built up to be something, when there was really nothing, or it was always otherwise, than
what was thought by you.
If you don't find anything, an essay:

By coming aware you are in control of the place where something is brought into life. So when you come aware, there is nothing, but it is nothing and bland because of inappropriate attention, while the correct attention(yoniso manasikāra) brings out something, that something is sound of others - saṅkhata which means restored, put together again, sati(mindfulness) is what will rule over it that when it returns you notice it, once you notice it you can bring it out and then not lose sight of it.

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:03 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:20 pm
It is impossible for the puthujjana to do this, when he tries to dismantle the 'self'
or not hear the sound of music, he feels like he is falling into an abyss, and tries
to hold onto a lifeline, so he may survive, that is called Bhavatanha.
I think its the mind you need free from the conceit by seeing and knowing properly.
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.72/en/sujato wrote:“Sir, how does one know and see so that the mind is rid of ego, possessiveness, and conceit for this conscious body and all external stimuli; and going beyond discrimination, it’s peaceful and well freed?”
“kathaṃ nu kho, bhante, jānato kathaṃ passato imasmiñca saviññāṇake kāye bahiddhā ca sabbanimittesu ahaṅkāramamaṅkāramānāpagataṃ mānasaṃ hoti, vidhā samatikkantaṃ santaṃ suvimuttan”ti?
-
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.246/en/sujato wrote:In the same way, a mendicant searches for form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness anywhere they might be reborn.
As they search in this way, their thoughts of ‘I’ or ‘mine’ or ‘I am’ are no more.”
searching the place to be reborn, the I doesn't arise.
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.72/en/sujato wrote:“Surādha, one is freed by not grasping having truly seen any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: *all* form—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
as you are searching and searching a place to be reborn(rooting for the external stimuli), albeit the self won't arise, that is anupādā(non-grasping) which is about realizing what is beyond discrimination or impingement.
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.72/en/sujato wrote:That’s how to know and see so that the mind is rid of ego, possessiveness, and conceit for this conscious body and all external stimuli; and going beyond discrimination, it’s peaceful and well freed.” …
the self doesn't get evicted. It is about seeing in a way where the conceit doesn't arise regards to the conscious body and external stimuli..
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.72/en/sujato wrote:And Venerable Surādha became one of the perfected. aññataro ca panāyasmā surādho arahataṃ ahosīti.
he got perfected by hearing a mere explanation.
https://suttacentral.net/an3.33/en/sujato wrote: ‘The abandoning of both ‘Pahānaṃ kāmasaññānaṃ,
sensual perceptions and aversion; domanassāna cūbhayaṃ;
the dispelling of dullness, Thinassa ca panūdanaṃ,
and the cessation of remorse. kukkuccānaṃ nivāraṇaṃ.
Pure equanimity and mindfulness, Upekkhāsatisaṃsuddhaṃ,
preceded by investigation of principles—dhammatakkapurejavaṃ;
this, I declare, is liberation by enlightenment, Aññāvimokkhaṃ pabrūmi,
with the smashing of ignorance.’” avijjāya pabhedanan’”ti.
looks like it is about 4th jhana and going beyond it to the immaterial liberations.

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:57 pm

Your last comment, you did a great job with it, thank you,
but the last sentence of it
looks like it is about 4th jhana and going beyond it to the immaterial liberations
I am not sure what you imply here. In my book, the immaterial is very well within the
fine material, and cessation also, either within or immediately after 4th jhana. That is where
Buddha awakened, and he left the world, too, within 4th jhana.
I shall discusss atta and anatta according to Buddha, at a later time, in case
you might change your mind. In reality there is no being or non-being, this is all
transitory stuff, only the ever whirling chain of dependent origination
circling. One must not get hung up on self nor non-self, but for the purpose of conversation
in a chat group, that is another matter.
how quickly life moves, we are here today, gone tomorrow. :candle:

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:16 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:57 pm
Your last comment, you did a great job with it, thank you,
but the last sentence of it
looks like it is about 4th jhana and going beyond it to the immaterial liberations
I am not sure what you imply here. In my book, the immaterial is very well within the
fine material, and cessation also, either within or immediately after 4th jhana. That is where
Buddha awakened, and he left the world, too, within 4th jhana.
I shall discusss atta and anatta according to Buddha, at a later time, in case
you might change your mind. In reality there is no being or non-being, this is all
transitory stuff, only the ever whirling chain of dependent origination
circling. One must not get hung up on self nor non-self, but for the purpose of conversation
in a chat group, that is another matter.
how quickly life moves, we are here today, gone tomorrow. :candle:
How can immaterial be within the fine material? it would be named like this then: fine-immaterial. If you mean Russian doll then it would be fine material and then comes immaterial and then if I apply your logic then fine material would be within sensual material.

Can you be specific what you mean by immaterial being within material?

also if you worry about time going fast, perhaps buy a ticket to Mars, we all have exactly same amount of time, maybe look learn tips from those who have lots of free time hikikomoris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori wrote:In Japan, hikikomori (Japanese: ひきこもり or 引きこもり, lit. "pulling inward, being confined", i.e., "acute social withdrawal"; colloquially/adaptive translation: shut-in) are reclusive adolescents or adults who withdraw from society and seek extreme degrees of isolation and confinement.[1

spending most of the day and nearly every day confined to home,
marked and persistent avoidance of social situations, and social relationships,
social withdrawal symptoms causing significant functional impairment,
duration of at least six months, and
no apparent physical or mental etiology to account for the social withdrawal symptoms.

Pulsar
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:34 pm

Auto wrote
If you mean Russian doll then it would be fine material and then comes immaterial and then if I apply your logic then fine material would be within sensual material
Not sure whether Russian dolls would be a good model, but in DN 2 the imperturbable (what I call immaterial) is described very well, within 4th jhana.
Let me think, Russian doll, perhaps, perhaps not, in the imperturbable state of the meditator, nothing contacts, or nothing impacts, but on the hard surface of the Russian doll, if you take a hammer to it, it is the annihilation of the poor doll, not kidding here.
Auto wrote
Can you be specific what you mean by immaterial being within material?
Even in VSM which got some things right, and some things wrong, there is reference to
Change of lineage
moving from the Sensuous world to Fine material world. But moving from Fine material to immaterial there is no change of lineage??? one can just slip into it, it is not so hard as some
make it sound.
VSM got this one thing right, we can say.
Can you explain to me, how some went to nibbana, just by practicing the 4 jhanas?
What great advantage do the Upanishad Arupas offer us, on the path to
destruction of suffering?
As for your model of the reclusiveness of Japanese youth, hikikomori Pulsar is pretty sure those Japanese youth were plainly clueless of the Arahants, the holy spirits of Buddha's day, or thereafter.
With love :candle:
 

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:22 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:34 pm
in DN 2 the imperturbable (what I call immaterial) is described very well, within 4th jhana.
..
https://suttacentral.net/dn8/en/sujato#dn8:17.31 wrote: And how is a mendicant accomplished in ethics?
..
When they have this entire spectrum of noble ethics, they experience a blameless happiness inside themselves.
..
They enter and remain in the first absorption … paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.
This pertains to their accomplishment in mind. … Idampissa hoti cittasampadāya … pe …
They enter and remain in the second absorption … dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ …
third absorption … tatiyaṃ jhānaṃ …
fourth absorption. catutthaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.
This pertains to their accomplishment in mind. Idampissa hoti cittasampadāya.
This, Kassapa, is that accomplishment in mind. Ayaṃ kho, kassapa, cittasampadā.

When their mind is immersed like this, So evaṃ samāhite citte … pe …
they extend and project it toward knowledge and vision … ñāṇadassanāya cittaṃ abhinīharati abhininnāmeti …
This pertains to their accomplishment in wisdom. … idampissa hoti paññāsampadāya … pe …
They understand: ‘… there is no return to any state of existence.’ nāparaṃ itthattāyāti pajānāti.
This pertains to their accomplishment in wisdom. Idampissa hoti paññāsampadāya.
This, Kassapa, is that accomplishment in wisdom. Ayaṃ kho, kassapa, paññāsampadā.

And, Kassapa, there is no accomplishment in ethics, mind, and wisdom that is better or finer than this. Imāya ca, kassapa, sīlasampadāya cittasampadāya paññāsampadāya aññā sīlasampadā cittasampadā paññāsampadā uttaritarā vā paṇītatarā vā natthi.
..
https://suttacentral.net/an4.196/en/sujato wrote:And those ascetics and brahmins whose behavior by way of body, speech, and mind is not pure are also incapable of knowing and seeing, of supreme awakening.
Yepi te, sāḷha, samaṇabrāhmaṇā aparisuddhakāyasamācārā aparisuddhavacīsamācārā aparisuddhamanosamācārā aparisuddhājīvā, abhabbā te ñāṇadassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya.
the anuttarāya sambodhāya is right immersion?
https://suttacentral.net/an4.196/en/sujato wrote:A noble disciple with right immersion truly sees any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: *all* form—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
4 jhanas is for to become accomplished in mind. Then you are viable for right immersion with ñāṇadassana to become accomplished in wisdom.
https://suttacentral.net/mn100/en/sujato wrote: But I have not achieved any superhuman distinction in knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones by this severe, grueling work.
Na kho panāhaṃ imāya kaṭukāya dukkarakārikāya adhigacchāmi uttari manussadhammā alamariyañāṇadassanavisesaṃ.

Could there be another path to awakening?’ Siyā nu kho añño maggo bodhāyā’ti?
There is difference between 4 jhanas and 4 jhanas, the jhanas seem to be a rather common tool for many things hence the samma samadhi.

Some Suttas tell about the 8 jhana version and eradication of defilements this way, maybe its just another way and still is samma samadhi, since it removes defilements, there prolly is more ways of samma samadhi's.
--

once the right immersion is gotten, one doesn't fall away from it(?)
https://suttacentral.net/mn29/en/sujato wrote: It’s impossible for that mendicant to fall away from that irreversible liberation. Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ so bhikkhu tāya asamayavimuttiyā parihāyetha.
is immersion and liberation same thing? cetovimutti=anuttarāya sambodha=samma samadhi

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 pm

Auto wrote
is immersion and liberation same thing?

My understanding is immersion is what is called absorption, i.e. immersed in jhana,
the right concentrations, or absorptions, as pertains to 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th buddhist jhana. Liberation
is permanent release from the asavas, or afflictions i.e. Arahant.
The word absorption again can be misleading, since it is an active and dynamic state.
I try to understand things jhanically, not get hung up on words.
When you get hung up on words it creates views, and that is anathema, to the
spritual activity of being released from suffering.
Auto wrote
cetovimutti=anuttarāya sambodha=samma samadhi

The way I understand cetovimutti is, it is called the release from mind, either temporarily
as in cessation, or permanently as in Arahant.
I have to look up what Anuttaraya means, and to put it nicely I do not care either,
when one messes with Pali words, it opens a can of worms.
It is better to spend time in jhanic meditation than try to become a Pali
expert. If you read all of Ven BB foot notes in various nikayas you would agree
with me.
Even he can't figure out Pali meanings at times, and he openly says so.
If you think Pali is an easy matter, pl. tell me what Brahman means, with regard to the
doctrine.
PL tell me what namarupa means?
Have a week of Dhamma exploration, it will do you good.
With love :candle:

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:01 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 pm
My understanding is immersion is what is called absorption, i.e. immersed in jhana,
the right concentrations, or absorptions, as pertains to 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th buddhist jhana.
not all jhana is right samadhi, which were half the point made in the previous post.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 pm
Liberation
is permanent release from the asavas, or afflictions i.e. Arahant.
I highlighted with the Sutta quotes in previous post that the right samadhi is from what you won't fall back to the wrong one and that means liberation.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 pm
I try to understand things jhanically, not get hung up on words.
When you get hung up on words it creates views, and that is anathema, to the
spritual activity of being released from suffering.
so then don't do it if it creates views for you.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 pm
The way I understand cetovimutti is, it is called the release from mind, either temporarily
as in cessation, or permanently as in Arahant.
You are writing "release from mind", while in Sutta I think it is about getting the mind free, a big difference.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 pm
I have to look up what Anuttaraya means, and to put it nicely I do not care either,
when one messes with Pali words, it opens a can of worms.
It means imperturbable, same translation but different pali word in DN 2
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 pm
It is better to spend time in jhanic meditation than try to become a Pali
expert.
Two persons meditating in same settings can do it differently. And more so certain meditation requires dedicated effort to focus on specific way to get a result and the result is base for judging and you need more than one result to be adequate. There are vipassana nana maps.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 pm
If you think Pali is an easy matter, pl. tell me what Brahman means, with regard to the
doctrine.
PL tell me what namarupa means?
type these words into a dictionary or do a dedicated search. I go with the meaning what suits me.

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:26 pm

Auto wrote
type these words into a dictionary or do a dedicated search. I go with the meaning what suits me.
It is naive to think namarupa in relation to DO can be figured out using a dictionary. It is something that can be done via meditation only.
As for the rest, I shall maintain noble silence.
You have not explained to me what the difference between the four fine material jhanas and the upanisad immaterial jhanas are.
How would the specific upanishad Arupa jhanas benefit a meditator accomplished in the four buddhist jhanas? I did not ask for suttas. I asked for your understanding.
The idea behind the meditation is the transcendence of the sensual sphere with the goal of
eliminating suffering. :candle:

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:20 am

Pulsar wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:26 pm
You have not explained to me what the difference between the four fine material jhanas and the upanisad immaterial jhanas are.
How would the specific upanishad Arupa jhanas benefit a meditator accomplished in the four buddhist jhanas? I did not ask for suttas. I asked for your understanding.
I think you are calling ākāsānañcāyatana, viññāṇañcāyatana, ākiñcaññāyatana, nevasaññānāsaññāyatana as Upanishads immaterial jhanas.

My understanding? if I go with the AN 9.36(what i searched up to copy paste the pali words for the list of things what are coming after 4 jhanas) then you need only 1st jhana to gain liberation.

Knowing that above,then i assume when you do it in 1st jhana then your mind is liberated from rebirth to 1st jhana and where you will be is 2nd jhana. The 'no more rebirth' extends to the corresponding world it is attained, so if you get 4 jhana defilement eradicated you will going to abide in 5th once this body is expired.
Pulsar wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:26 pm
The idea behind the meditation is the transcendence of the sensual sphere with the goal of
eliminating suffering.
do you mean transcending sensual sphere by getting into 1st jhana? or you mean 4th jhana and 'that is it' you realize You don't exist and never have been, that there is only processes?

Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm

Auto wrote
I think you are calling ākāsānañcāyatana, viññāṇañcāyatana, ākiñcaññāyatana, nevasaññānāsaññāyatana as Upanishads immaterial jhanas
I dislike entangling with hifalutin words...
unless you elaborate, some are defined in MN 111 as Buddhist. For a person at the beginner level of jhana (definitely non-returner nor Arahant), these do not make sense.
If you are familiar with the Upanisad modes of these, what do you experience?
My understanding is these are dwellings of bliss, but the conundrum for me is, in the third
Buddhist jhana which I am familiar with, the meditation is about gaining insight to
impermanence (snake with three rings, simile used) so that rapture is discarded. Rapture/bliss stands
in the way of entering 4th jhana. If so why look for bliss after the 4th jhana,
in modes 5, 6, 7 etc. afterwards. Does it make sense?
Auto wrote
My understanding? if I go with the AN 9.36(what i searched up to copy paste the pali words for the list of things what are coming after 4 jhanas) then you need only 1st jhana to gain liberation.
Your wording here is not clear to me, is this a question? Few suttas in the canon do say first jhana is sufficient to achieve the goal. It may be so for the resolute meditator, who is immersed in the 37 factors of awakening.
MN 121 does not refer to jhana as such at all, but offers instructions as to how to get to the void. Many
folks do not know how to interpret this unique sutta, it is not that unique in a way.
Moggallana used to meditate in this fashion.
Auto wrote
Knowing that above,then i assume when you do it in 1st jhana then your mind is liberated from rebirth to 1st jhana and where you will be is 2nd jhana. The 'no more rebirth' extends to the corresponding world it is attained, so if you get 4 jhana defilement eradicated you will going to abide in 5th once this body is expired.
Your comment baffles me, please make it clearer.

Let us try to be on the same page as regards the goal of Buddhist Jhana. I perceive it as the crowning of the 4 establishments of mindfulness, or vice versa. These cannot be separated from other practices used for awakening, in the process of wiping out the afflictions.

Once you told me the eightfold path does not concern you.
Leaving aside the other factors, let us consider right view, right thinking (same sankappa), if one does not pay serious attention to these, one might as well forget about right sati, and right samadhi (4 jhanas)

Some folks are impressed by buddhist jhana, for the wrong reasons. Certain places of the canon says
via jhana one can walk through walls, gain divine ears, examine past lives.
Not even Sariputta was interested in these literally. Why should we be? If you are curious about
Buddha's teaching for these reasons, then you are in the wrong class room.

Once you respond to the above I will explain what transcending sensual sphere means.
Have a splendid weekend dear Auto. :candle:

auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:09 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
I dislike entangling with hifalutin words...
ākāsānañcāyatana -
akasa ananta ca ayatana. Space without end and sense base.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
If you are familiar with the Upanisad modes of these, what do you experience?
i don't know about Upanishads Jhana, it is something you have brought out and name like that, if you can, then quote the source from Upanishads where it is talked about "ākāsānañcāyatana.." what is the Upanishads word for them.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
My understanding is these are dwellings of bliss, but the conundrum for me is, in the third
Buddhist jhana which I am familiar with, the meditation is about gaining insight to
impermanence (snake with three rings, simile used) so that rapture is discarded. Rapture/bliss stands
in the way of entering 4th jhana. If so why look for bliss after the 4th jhana,
in modes 5, 6, 7 etc. afterwards. Does it make sense?
Its your biased thinking that 5-8 are about bliss.

The 5-8 are about the space, consciousness, nothingness(no perception), neither perception and non-perception.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
Your wording here is not clear to me, is this a question? Few suttas in the canon do say first jhana is sufficient to achieve the goal. It may be so for the resolute meditator, who is immersed in the 37 factors of awakening.
it wasn't a question. Good thing about 37 factors is that there is a change your guess is correct quite high.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
MN 121 does not refer to jhana as such at all, but offers instructions as to how to get to the void.
In my opinion the Sutta talks about focusing on oneness dependent on the perception of ākāsānañcāyatana(I put here pali word since you surely believe mn121 is nothing to do with the "5th.. jhana" but if you check pali words, it is).
The emptiness or void part is regards to the previous perceptions, likewise then the 6th is empty of perception of 5th.

You can find the logic on Wikipedia jhana section what is the difference in 1-4 jhana and 5-8 jhana and the rupa and arupa is exactly same usage as you have used the term "void" it is blanket and actual meditation you need instructions and be precise in meanings and how to.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
Your comment baffles me, please make it clearer.
no, its not even important other than be more openminded to different interpretations or where they are coming from
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
Let us try to be on the same page as regards the goal of Buddhist Jhana. I perceive it as the crowning of the 4 establishments of mindfulness, or vice versa. These cannot be separated from other practices used for awakening, in the process of wiping out the afflictions.
hmm new subject. You can pretty fast find that the term satipatthana there is more than one interpretation.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
Once you told me the eightfold path does not concern you.
Leaving aside the other factors, let us consider right view, right thinking (same sankappa), if one does not pay serious attention to these, one might as well forget about right sati, and right samadhi (4 jhanas)
Can you stop talking without any context? "Once you told me the eightfold path does not concern you." since even I don't remember that I have said it, and reading it feels like defamation.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:28 pm
Some folks are impressed by buddhist jhana, for the wrong reasons. Certain places of the canon says
via jhana one can walk through walls, gain divine ears, examine past lives.
Not even Sariputta was interested in these literally. Why should we be? If you are curious about
Buddha's teaching for these reasons, then you are in the wrong class room.
You are making such narrow conclusions..i think you know you can get it all by doing right thing.. why not talk about factors why wouldn't you get those?

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