is cessation like a vacuum

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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altar
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is cessation like a vacuum

Post by altar » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:23 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:10 pm
binocular wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:08 pm

Meditation doesn't happen in some kind of metaphysical and moral vacuum.
Are you sure of this?....how would you know?
chownah
as much as i would like to say "no,"

there doesn't appear to me to be anything worth upholding, and therefore cessation is what follows.

i do things like eat and go for walks of course, but i'm acquiring a very "careless" attitude. i'm curious if anyone has any feeling about vacuuming
Last edited by altar on Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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altar
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by altar » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:32 pm

this is related to my other post i guess, too, the one on withdrawal.

but all things that are pleasant sounding i'm starting to back away from. the backing away feels unwholesome but the pleasure involved in whatever i'm thinking of doesn't quite seem worth it. for example i'm invited to a wedding abroad and i'd rather retreat than go... so i'm playing it day by day not forcing myself to do anything. no doubt the wedding sounds pleasant, etc., it just doesn't jive with my understanding of time, i.e., one in which it is permissible to relax from "the future."

"relaxing from the future" is a slightly less dramatic notion than vacuuming.

(if i'm not mistaken this vacuuming notion was upheld by some early buddhist school in which everything has the mark of cessation, but is not part of theravada).

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Aloka
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by Aloka » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:31 pm

altar wrote: i'm curious if anyone has any feeling about vacuuming
Only when my carpets need cleaning. ;)


.

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:09 am

“There is that sphere, monks, where there is no earth, no water, no fire, no air, no sphere of infinite space, no sphere of infinite consciousness, no sphere of nothingness, no sphere of neither perception nor non-perception, no this world, no world beyond, neither Moon nor Sun. There, monks, I say there is surely no coming, no going, no persisting, no passing away, no rebirth It is quite without support, unmoving, without an object,—just this is the end of suffering.”
https://suttacentral.net/en/ud8.1
“There is, monks, an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned. If, monks there were not that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, you could not know an escape here from the born, become, made, and conditioned. But because there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, therefore you do know an escape from the born, become, made, and conditioned.”
https://suttacentral.net/en/ud8.3
What happens to the consciousness when a person becomes an Arahant?
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/wh ... ahant/7353

Emptiness: the reality beyond reality
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=27202
Of course people say "What's the point of this if it's just going to end and you're going to go 'poof' and you're gone? I don't want to go". Why don't you want to go? Because you think you're still there. What are you hanging on to that you don't want to leave? Nibbana? What have you got a vested interest in? What do you think you own? Who is the owner which you're not willing to recognise as emptiness?
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books/Ajahn_ ... Let_Go.htm
when I'm a bit depressed, I think nibbana is a very depressing thing.

Nibbana is the denomination for the transcendent and singularly indescribable liberation that is the final objective of the teachings of the Buddha
http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/caminho_ ... ibbana.php

I think we have trivialized the word transcend


maybe I did not understand the topic

:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

DooDoot
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by DooDoot » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:44 am

altar wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:23 pm
there doesn't appear to me to be anything worth upholding, and therefore cessation is what follows...i do things like eat and go for walks of course, but i'm acquiring a very "careless" attitude...
'Cessation' (nirodha) is the cessation of ignorance, craving & attachment, therefore it can seem like a careless attitude. However this 'careless' or 'carefree' attitude is only the liberation (vimmuti) aspect of the eightfold path. The eightfold path also has an ethical (sila) component, which is not carelessness.

2600htz
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by 2600htz » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:28 pm

Hello:

Emm i think you are over-extending a little bit some terms.
If you are reading and practicing buddhism its perfectly normal to develop some disenchantment with the world and with some of the activities you used to enjoy.

But you have to find the right pitch, in a society you have duties, and they will let you know when you are not performing. Sometimes as meditators we get our faculties out of balance and this kind of events, like a wedding, helps figuring things out and finding a better balance.

Regards.

SunWuKong
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by SunWuKong » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:35 pm

altar wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:23 pm
chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:10 pm
binocular wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:08 pm

Meditation doesn't happen in some kind of metaphysical and moral vacuum.
Are you sure of this?....how would you know?
chownah
as much as i would like to say "no,"

there doesn't appear to me to be anything worth upholding, and therefore cessation is what follows.

i do things like eat and go for walks of course, but i'm acquiring a very "careless" attitude. i'm curious if anyone has any feeling about vacuuming
I'm guessing that you mean cessation as in the 4th jhana, which might be experienced during meditation. I's not a vacuum. It's not a void. There is an awareness of it, just no thoughts, feelings, perceptions, nothing arises from it, no karma, no action or reaction, yet it is there. It's like the calm in the center of a hurricane. the still spot in the center of a spinning plate. Plenty of other metaphors. The question "how would you know" is really a valid point, since nothing arises from it, no memory, not a trace.

Saengnapha
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:32 am

SunWuKong wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:35 pm
altar wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:23 pm
chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:10 pm
Are you sure of this?....how would you know?
chownah
as much as i would like to say "no,"

there doesn't appear to me to be anything worth upholding, and therefore cessation is what follows.

i do things like eat and go for walks of course, but i'm acquiring a very "careless" attitude. i'm curious if anyone has any feeling about vacuuming
I'm guessing that you mean cessation as in the 4th jhana, which might be experienced during meditation. I's not a vacuum. It's not a void. There is an awareness of it, just no thoughts, feelings, perceptions, nothing arises from it, no karma, no action or reaction, yet it is there. It's like the calm in the center of a hurricane. the still spot in the center of a spinning plate. Plenty of other metaphors. The question "how would you know" is really a valid point, since nothing arises from it, no memory, not a trace.
Arupa jhana still contains the 'I' maker. There is awareness of formlessness. It is not nirodha. There are traces because you would never know that this happened if there was no recording going on at that moment. The Buddha went further than this. He let go of the state of Neither Sensation Nor No Sensation again. This is called Sanna Vedayita Nirodha, Cessation of Sensation and Feeling. The complete stopping of the activity called mind. It is a kind of death. After emerging from this, he was able to see how suffering was created once and for all, paticca samupadda, and the subsequent nirodha samapatti, the ending of the dream of existence.

Garrib
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by Garrib » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:10 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:32 am

Arupa jhana still contains the 'I' maker. There is awareness of formlessness. It is not nirodha. There are traces because you would never know that this happened if there was no recording going on at that moment. The Buddha went further than this. He let go of the state of Neither Sensation Nor No Sensation again. This is called Sanna Vedayita Nirodha, Cessation of Sensation and Feeling. The complete stopping of the activity called mind. It is a kind of death. After emerging from this, he was able to see how suffering was created once and for all, paticca samupadda, and the subsequent nirodha samapatti, the ending of the dream of existence.
Sounds like someone has been listening to Bhante P? :)

Saengnapha
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:54 am

Garrib wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:10 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:32 am

Arupa jhana still contains the 'I' maker. There is awareness of formlessness. It is not nirodha. There are traces because you would never know that this happened if there was no recording going on at that moment. The Buddha went further than this. He let go of the state of Neither Sensation Nor No Sensation again. This is called Sanna Vedayita Nirodha, Cessation of Sensation and Feeling. The complete stopping of the activity called mind. It is a kind of death. After emerging from this, he was able to see how suffering was created once and for all, paticca samupadda, and the subsequent nirodha samapatti, the ending of the dream of existence.
Sounds like someone has been listening to Bhante P? :)
Yes, along with my years of friendship with U.G., whom to me was a living example of nirodha samapatti.

Dinsdale
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Re: is cessation like a vacuum

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:24 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:35 pm
It's like the calm in the center of a hurricane...
I like the eye-of-the-storm analogy, like a stillness inside ( beneath?) the movement.

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