Alcohol

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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retrofuturist
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Re: Alcohol

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:48 am

Greetings,
mikenz66 wrote:I don't drink because I know the mind is much clearer without it
This is the main reason that I rarely drink... because abstinence contributes to heedfulness. Even one drink will negatively impact mindfulness and if it impacts mindfulness you're far more llkely to act ignorantly, and as per the dependent origination process, suffering will be the inevitable result.

I do still have the occasional drink if visiting friends or if it's a really hot Summer day... but even then it will only be 1 or 2 at max over the space of a few hours. I don't act immorally if I have 1 or 2 so don't have concerns about sila per se, but the negative effects on mindfulness and concentration are still discernable.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Annapurna
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Re: Alcohol

Post by Annapurna » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:54 am

zavk wrote:I must confess that I have not been able to abstain from intoxicants. But lucky for me, my body can only take a small amount of alcohol. I have 3 drinks over the course of the entire night and that's plenty for me. But I certainly don't see this as an excuse. I do feel the effects of alcohol on my practice. I can feel its clouding effects on the mind. And I do realise that there are consequences I have to bear. So far, I've managed to sit in the morning even when I drink the night before. I plan to keep doing so.

Perhaps I cannot be considered an upasaka. But I accept that this is where I'm at at this point of my life. I recognise that although I am as yet unable to keep the fifth precept, it can nevertheless be an aspiration of my spiritual endeavours.

Metta,
zavk
May I ask why you find it impossible to renounce alcohol?

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zavk
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Re: Alcohol

Post by zavk » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:10 am

Annabel wrote:
zavk wrote:I must confess that I have not been able to abstain from intoxicants. But lucky for me, my body can only take a small amount of alcohol. I have 3 drinks over the course of the entire night and that's plenty for me. But I certainly don't see this as an excuse. I do feel the effects of alcohol on my practice. I can feel its clouding effects on the mind. And I do realise that there are consequences I have to bear. So far, I've managed to sit in the morning even when I drink the night before. I plan to keep doing so.

Perhaps I cannot be considered an upasaka. But I accept that this is where I'm at at this point of my life. I recognise that although I am as yet unable to keep the fifth precept, it can nevertheless be an aspiration of my spiritual endeavours.

Metta,
zavk
May I ask why you find it impossible to renounce alcohol?

To be honest, I don't usually crave alcohol. Outside of social situations, I don't drink alcohol. I don't have a glass of wine with my meals or anything like that. In fact, I don't enjoy anything else besides a cold beer--no spirits or wine for me.

So I wouldn't say I find it 'impossible'. I just haven't been able to cut it off completely. Retro's experience speaks to me. A cold beer has been extremely refreshing in the past few weeks when it had been so hot here in Melbourne! My body doesn't allow me to take enough alcohol to the point of heedlessness. I don't get drunk as such; I just go straight to feeling sick.

In a sense I'm grateful that I have some sort of biological 'safety valve'! But again, this is not an excuse. I just don't wish to beat myself up with some sort of puritanical stick and generate feelings of aversion over my 'failure' to be a 'perfect' Buddhist. I just do what I can, watching and learning from my present circumstances, and always with the precepts as guiding principles, even if I cannot adhere to them totally. I do believe that with enough 'dhammic momentum' my craving for alcohol (even though it is mild) will dissipate.

Metta,
zavk
With metta,
zavk

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Annapurna
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Re: Alcohol

Post by Annapurna » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:35 am

I understand the desire for a cold drink.

I drink sparkling mineralwater mixed with juice.

Wonderful.
I do believe that with enough 'dhammic momentum' my craving for alcohol (even though it is mild) will dissipate.
Probably so. :smile: :coffee:

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Rui Sousa
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Re: Alcohol

Post by Rui Sousa » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:25 pm

Being mindfull of the effect of even a small amount of wine did to my mind, made me decide not to drink at all. It happened when my wife was on her 8th month of pregnancy, we were at a birthday party and I was drinking my second beer, she had some pain and asked me to get ready to drive her to the hospital... I couldn't !!! I was not able to safely drive my wife and my yet-to-be born son to the hospital !!! That was it, no more alcohol.

I might taste wine when someone say "is this wine bad?", or "this is the best wine I have ever tasted". And that's it.

I love to drink beer at lunch or when I am with friends, there are some brands that have 0,0º non-alchoholic beers that make that indulgence possible without breaking the percept, so I can still have a nice cold beer while watching the sunset. :toast:
With Metta

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Re: Alcohol

Post by Annapurna » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:12 pm

Yeah, alcohol free beers are great. I like some of them a lot, and better than the alcoholic ones since my head stays clear.

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Re: Alcohol

Post by bodom » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:14 pm

Annabel wrote:Yeah, alcohol free beers are great. I like some of them a lot, and better than the alcoholic ones since my head stays clear.
I think they taste like crap. If im gonna suffer with the taste of them i might as well as drink a real beer and get buzzed! Not that i would do that but i never drank for the taste i can tell ya that! Oh and by the way there is alcohol in non alcoholic drinks, they contain no more than .5 percent alcohol by volume. Non-alcoholic beer can contain a small amount of alcohol (the exact percentage varies by country), so purchasers of non-alcoholic beer in some US states must be at least 21. So theres not enough alcohol to get you buzzed but ya cant say your completely abstinate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-alcoholic_beverage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
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Re: Alcohol

Post by Jechbi » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:44 pm

zavk wrote:But again, this is not an excuse. I just don't wish to beat myself up with some sort of puritanical stick and generate feelings of aversion over my 'failure' to be a 'perfect' Buddhist. I just do what I can, watching and learning from my present circumstances, and always with the precepts as guiding principles, even if I cannot adhere to them totally. I do believe that with enough 'dhammic momentum' my craving for alcohol (even though it is mild) will dissipate.
:goodpost:
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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Re: Alcohol

Post by Individual » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:10 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:
Annabel wrote:Yeah, alcohol free beers are great. I like some of them a lot, and better than the alcoholic ones since my head stays clear.
I think they taste like crap.
I'd have to agree. When it comes to beer, it all tastes pretty bad, which is why beer companies don't say it "tastes good," because that would sound ridiculous. Instead, they say it "goes down smooth" and has good "drinkability" -- as in, it tastes bad, but not so much that it makes you want to vomit.

A beer can be good with certain meals, though, like a burger or a steak.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Alcohol

Post by MJH » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:20 pm

Individual wrote: it all tastes pretty bad, which is why beer companies don't say it "tastes good," because that would sound ridiculous.
You don't remember the old Miller commercials do you...... :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omB-HVs6sRw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Alcohol

Post by Annapurna » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:54 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:
Annabel wrote:Yeah, alcohol free beers are great. I like some of them a lot, and better than the alcoholic ones since my head stays clear.
I think they taste like crap. If im gonna suffer with the taste of them i might as well as drink a real beer and get buzzed! Not that i would do that but i never drank for the taste i can tell ya that! Oh and by the way there is alcohol in non alcoholic drinks, they contain no more than .5 percent alcohol by volume. Non-alcoholic beer can contain a small amount of alcohol (the exact percentage varies by country), so purchasers of non-alcoholic beer in some US states must be at least 21. So theres not enough alcohol to get you buzzed but ya cant say your completely abstinate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-alcoholic_beverage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:namaste:
:rofl:

Come on over to Germany and Munich, where the worst alcoholfree beer is still better than the alcoholic beers of the rest of the world! :jumping:

Germans can't drink beer from abroad..... it is such an assault to the taste buds.Sorry! :console: No offence or arrogance meant, really.

If you're ever in the vicinity, come on over and try the difference! I live in an area where the best hops of the world grows!

We have a brand here, about which I've heard an American say "it runs down your throat with the smoothness of thick oil." :toast:

:jumping:

But of course you're right.

The alcoholic ones do taste better when you're used to them.

But if you want to follow the precepts, you can't drink them, and then, after a while, a non- alcoholic one tastes just as fine. Even better. Clearer, *crisper*.

Be warned of the glasses we use here! :twisted:

1 liter..... :toast:

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Re: Alcohol

Post by BubbaBuddhist » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:58 pm

I haven't imbibed salubrious libations (:lol:) in over 28 years, since my son was born, since I wanted him to have better memories of his dad than I had of mine. However, I like to use beer for cooking, specifically making batter and certain breads. I assumed the alcohol cooked out, but with alcohol-free beer it became a non-issue, hooray, can I get a hallelujah from the 12-steppers?

J / Bb
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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Re: Alcohol

Post by clw_uk » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:54 pm

hallelujah :clap: :bow: :clap:
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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