When Buddhists get a tick....

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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tiltbillings
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:28 pm

No more meta-discussion. Back to topic, please.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Annapurna
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Annapurna » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:49 pm

tiltbillings wrote:enough with the aversion stuff
That's lovely of you, Sir. :smile:

Mawkish1983
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Mawkish1983 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:50 pm

My understanding:

- Intentionally killing is unskillful.
- I would not kill a robber to protect my property, understanding that doing so would be creating uwholesome kamma
- My property is anatta
- My body is anatta
- Ergo, I would not kill a tick to protect my body, understanding that doing so would be creating uwholesome kamma

I am, however, far from perfect and deeply deluded with concepts of permanent self and fear of death... so in that situation I probably would kill the tick (regrettably), accepting the unwholesome kamma it creates and knowing I'll 'be the heir to it'.

As I say, I'm not perfect but I want to be. Maybe a better question would be, would an arahant kill a tick to save their own life? I don't think they would.

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Annapurna
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Annapurna » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:51 pm

Hoo wrote:Leave the thread open, Tilt. I'm Buddhist, live in the heart of tick country and am interested in hearing as many differing views as may present themselves because I have this problem as well. I also have decreased immunity due to my chemo treatment which heightens my interest.

I find it hard to believe that this thread is only about 3-4 hours old and you're asking if it's done. It's not like it's taking up space on the shelf that's needed. Give it a cuple of days for people to even see it, reply if they have one, etc.


Hoo
Thank you, Hoo. You're such a dear. :hug:

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tiltbillings
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:56 pm

No more meta-discussion. Any further will be removed. Back to topic, please.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Annapurna
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Annapurna » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:56 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:My understanding:

- Intentionally killing is unskillful.
- I would not kill a robber to protect my property, understanding that doing so would be creating uwholesome kamma
- My property is anatta
- My body is anatta
- Ergo, I would not kill a tick to protect my body, understanding that doing so would be creating uwholesome kamma

I am, however, far from perfect and deeply deluded with concepts of permanent self and fear of death... so in that situation I probably would kill the tick (regrettably), accepting the unwholesome kamma it creates and knowing I'll 'be the heir to it'.

As I say, I'm not perfect but I want to be. Maybe a better question would be, would an arahant kill a tick to save their own life? I don't think they would.
I really woud like to hear what our Venerables think about this.

It's crossed my mind each time I discover a tick on me and have to pull it out.

I live in an area with Lyme infections and also meningo encephalitis, caused by ticks.

A good friend of mine is ill from Borreliose.

My brother had it.

I try to remove them alive, but I fail, sometimes, but I did not intend to kill them, so as was said before, the precept is not violated.

Perhaps a Venerable could say something to this?

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tiltbillings
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:02 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:My understanding:

- Intentionally killing is unskillful.
- I would not kill a robber to protect my property, understanding that doing so would be creating uwholesome kamma
- My property is anatta
- My body is anatta
- Ergo, I would not kill a tick to protect my body, understanding that doing so would be creating uwholesome kamma.
You would kill a robber who was trying to kill you, or trying to kill your family?

You body may be anatta, but to willfully neglect it seems to be a problem. Also, keep in mind, that you cannot live without something dying.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Annapurna
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Annapurna » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:05 pm

Test

Mawkish1983
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Mawkish1983 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:26 pm

tiltbillings wrote:You would kill a robber who was trying to kill you, or trying to kill your family?
I think maybe ideally no... but I'm a coward. I've never been in this situation, but I'd like to think I would act to prevent the death of either myself or my family. It's a tough problem because I wouldn't say it's okay to kill in self defence and yet I'd probably do it. Hypocrite? Yes, but I believe if there was no conflict in my mind there'd be no progress.
tiltbillings wrote:You body may be anatta, but to willfully neglect it seems to be a problem. Also, keep in mind, that you cannot live without something dying.
All this being true, I simply don't know. Just giving my opinion in it's simplest terms: Killing is wrong but I'd probably do it if necessary. I'd prefer not to, but if I did so I wouldn't try to justify it - I'd accept the kamma created remorsefully.

Does that contradiction make sense?

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tiltbillings
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:27 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:You would kill a robber who was trying to kill you, or trying to kill your family?
I think maybe ideally no... but I'm a coward. I've never been in this situation, but I'd like to think I would act to prevent the death of either myself or my family. It's a tough problem because I wouldn't say it's okay to kill in self defence and yet I'd probably do it. Hypocrite? Yes, but I believe if there was no conflict in my mind there'd be no progress.
tiltbillings wrote:You body may be anatta, but to willfully neglect it seems to be a problem. Also, keep in mind, that you cannot live without something dying.
All this being true, I simply don't know. Just giving my opinion in it's simplest terms: Killing is wrong but I'd probably do it if necessary. I'd prefer not to, but if I did so I wouldn't try to justify it - I'd accept the kamma created remorsefully.

Does that contradiction make sense?
Life is hard.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Ben
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Ben » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:18 pm

Hi all,
PeterB wrote:To allow a tick to suck your blood is totally irresponsible and very dumb. They are carriers of a disease which can cripple you and/or cause you to go blind. What exactly are you trying to prove ? Don't justify your action by referring to Buddhadhamma , because it isnt anything to do with Buddhadhamma.
While I go to great pains not to kill living creatures including ants, spiders and other undesirable and irritating creatures, I am with Peter on this one. I will make every endeavour to remove a tick without killing it but if it dies as a result of its removal - then that is a sad but inintended collateral damage of risk mitigation. Our first responsibility is to ourselves and those who depend on us. Tolerating a parasite so that it can feed on you despite the significant health risks to oneself is misplaced compassion.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

Hoo
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Hoo » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:21 pm

Pretty much the same ground that has been covered, but if it ticks you off to have it closed, it'll stay open. That does not bug me.
Thanks Tilt :)

I've been itching to see what others may share ;)

Hoo

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Virgo
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Virgo » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:32 pm

Annapurna wrote:What would a Buddhist [monk] do, if he found a tick tightly hlding on to his skin? Leave it till it falls off?

Ticks can cause Borreliosis or Lyme disease as well as meningitis, and need to get removed as quickly as possible.

Not always can you save the tick, I've never been able to, and honestly, what for? To multiply?
:thinking:

This is not another fleas thread, mind you.

Ticks are a lot more dangerous than fleas, .... well, since we don't get the plague anymore.... plus you have one for several days, and can get a hold of it.

Or what's up with intestinal worms?
Well I found one boring into my skin and I left it to do its business. I should mention that I already have Lyme disease via tick bits. I live in the Northeast United States in a state where Lyme disease is rampant. I have had it for many years.

I should mention that if my Lyme disease had been gone at that point I might have become reinfected. I don't think it was gone at that time but I new that it was possible as it had not flared up in quite some time. If still infected, the virus being reintroduced into my body could cause it to flare up badly. As the tick was biting me I was thinking about the horrible ways I have suffered from Lyme disease in the past.

All the best,

Kevin

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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by octathlon » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:16 am

Hoo wrote:
Pretty much the same ground that has been covered, but if it ticks you off to have it closed, it'll stay open. That does not bug me.
Thanks Tilt :)

I've been itching to see what others may share ;)

Hoo
I appreciate having the thread left open until I had a chance to see it, even if it "sucks".
While removing the tick, I would be reminded of the negative results of clinging.

Hoo
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Re: When Buddhists get a tick....

Post by Hoo » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:28 am

Ben wrote:....Our first responsibility is to ourselves and those who depend on us. Tolerating a parasite so that it can feed on you despite the significant health risks to oneself is misplaced compassion....
Hi Ben,

I'm not arguing with your point but wonder if you can explain further how you see it as "misplaced compassion" in this case. I've been thinking of it more as a "conflict in compassion," as if there is only room for compassion for one. I have a hard time seeing killing the tick as "less compassion, and acting in my interests as "more compassion."

Hoo......still trying to get a handle on this topic. :?:

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