about 3rd precept

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Ceisiwr
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Re: about 3rd precept

Post by Ceisiwr »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:53 am
Dhammanando wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:06 amThey don't. Nor do they call sex inside marriage 'wholesome'. In the suttas no sexual acts of any sort are ever called wholesome. In relation to sex 'wholesome' is applied only to certain acts of sexual abstention —with inappropriate partners in the case of 5-precept-observers; with anyone at all in the case of 8-precept-observers— not to any act of sexual indulgence.
OK. Thank you. Upon reflection, I won't disagree with the above in relation to the use of the word 'wholesome'. This said, i have not read an account in the suttas were coupled lay followers of the buddha were not husbands & wives.
At one time the Buddha was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Saṅgha of mendicants when he arrived at a village of the Kosalan brahmins named Bamboo Gate.

We wish to live at home with our children; to use sandalwood imported from Kāsi; to wear garlands, perfumes, and makeup; and to accept gold and money. And when our body breaks up, after death, we wish to be reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm.

Given that we have such wishes, may the Buddha teach us the Dhamma so that we may achieve them.

The Buddha said this: “And what is the explanation of the Dhamma that’s relevant to oneself?

A noble disciple reflects: ‘If someone were to have sexual relations with my wives, I wouldn’t like it. But if I were to have sexual relations with someone else’s wives, he wouldn’t like that either.

https://suttacentral.net/sn55.7/en/sujato
Thats hardly surprising, since the norm was for women to be married off to men and so for couples to marry instead of co-habit. That being said, out of slight interest, it seems in Vedic culture there was a concept of long term relationships outside of marriage in the form of gandharva marriages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandharva_marriage
“Accomplished in the four right efforts,
mindfulness meditation is your territory;
adorned with the flowers of liberation,
you’ll realize quenching without defilements.”


Devasabhattheragāthā
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: about 3rd precept

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:16 pm
Dhammanando wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:06 am
DooDoot wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:10 pm Where do the suttas ever refer to sex outside of marriage as wholesome? thanks :shrug:
They don't. Nor do they call sex inside marriage 'wholesome'. In the suttas no sexual acts of any sort are ever called wholesome. In relation to sex 'wholesome' is applied only to certain acts of sexual abstention —with inappropriate partners in the case of 5-precept-observers; with anyone at all in the case of 8-precept-observers— not to any act of sexual indulgence.
Thinking about sex thoughts or having imaginary sex or lust without masturbrating is 5 precept or 8 precept or 227 precept break? Or it goes afer anagami ?
It doesn't break the 3/8 but it is like asking if putting some alcohol in your mouth then spitting it breaks the 5th precept.
Not neglecting seclusion, absorption,
constantly living the Dhamma
in line with the Dhamma,
comprehending the danger
in states of becoming,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
SN 1.3
Image
Lust is a maker of nimittas, hate is a maker of nimittas, delusion is a maker of nimittas.
Rāgo kho, āvuso, nimittakaraṇo, doso nimittakaraṇo, moho nimittakaraṇo. (MN 43, SN 41.7)
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Dhammanando
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Re: about 3rd precept

Post by Dhammanando »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:16 pm Thinking about sex thoughts or having imaginary sex or lust without masturbrating is 5 precept or 8 precept or 227 precept break? Or it goes afer anagami ?
The different sets of sīla are concerned only with bodily and verbal actions. The effort to refrain from such thoughts comes under the training in samādhi.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: about 3rd precept

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:36 pm..
Hello Bhante.
I would like to share this interpretation of the sutta you mentioned before.

Image
Not neglecting seclusion, absorption,
constantly living the Dhamma
in line with the Dhamma,
comprehending the danger
in states of becoming,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
SN 1.3
Image
Lust is a maker of nimittas, hate is a maker of nimittas, delusion is a maker of nimittas.
Rāgo kho, āvuso, nimittakaraṇo, doso nimittakaraṇo, moho nimittakaraṇo. (MN 43, SN 41.7)
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