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Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:51 pm
by Nwad
So inspiring ! :hug:
Sadhu Sadhu Sadhi ! :anjali:

When some one know that he need 8 precepts to progress - he take it and keep it :anjali:

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:08 pm
by SarathW
Yes very inspiring story.
Please keep us informed about your progress.

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:51 pm
by Zom
If 5 precepts bring us good results we shouldn't share it too? I'm not sure.
At the price of conceit, you can, though it goes against the character of a noble person 8-)

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:41 pm
by Nwad
Zom wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:51 pm
At the price of conceit, you can, though it goes against the character of a noble person 8-)
I think that peoples should have noting to hide ;) Tendancy to hide somethink can be rooted on conseit and the volition to be some one, so personaly i dot try to be some one, and when i think that some information can be usefull for others i share it ;) To hide something is to think that this or that experiance is mine, but i dont thing that something can be mine, there is just conditions and results, so when some one describes his fruits of the practice, he just tel us which conditions brings which result, there is no owner of the result, there is just result of causes and conditions ;) :anjali: Living without keeping things for ourself is developing generosity :toast:

But ! At the level of the Arahant, after the fruit, i dont thing that there is some restlessness can push us to share something if not asked... :anjali:

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:58 pm
by Ceisiwr
I’m glad things are going well for you and your practice :smile:

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:22 pm
by Zom
Tendancy to hide somethink can be rooted on conseit
Quite otherwise, obviously .)

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:14 am
by Nwad
Not necessary... We can't judge about others people's motivations, until we can read minds. 8-)

I will stop here :anjali:

PS: But you are reason, if one's motivation is to help others and arise motivation in them, but there is almost envy and jealousy as result, so perhaps one should stop his sharings until it's not asked. It would be wise decision ! :anjali: Thanks Zom, one more time you give me occasion to liberation :anjali: :bow:

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:08 am
by mikenz66
This talk may be of interest:
Confidence Of A Spiritual Warrior - Ayya Seri
https://bswa.org/teaching/confidence-of ... ayye-seri/

Ayya Seri talks about her training with Ajahn Vayama. Among other things, she talks about how she took on the "Sitting Practice" of not lying down, but, under Ajahn Vayama's advice, did not discuss it with anyone. This was to ensure that she was doing it for the right reasons... She also mentions not developing negative attitudes about monastics who have different interpretations of the Vinaya from how she was trained.

:heart:
Mike

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:25 pm
by salayatananirodha
why is it someone talks about their eagerness to keep strong sīla and their recommendation to do so and they get accused of being boastful, thats just not what this appears to be. i've had it happen to me too, i dont care about better or worse, i want the fruits of great practice. the more people keep strong sīla the more chance one could associate with someone keeping strong sīla, in turn inspired to keep strong sīla. my biggest obstacle i think is -- well, besides maybe lack of faith -- not getting to associate with others who keep strong sīla. my local friend told me he is 'forced' to kill bugs even tho he doesnt want to. he is averse to correction on the matter. going alone at this stage i just get swamped by māra and my practice stagnates
however, lavantien, i would be content if i were you with keeping the uposatha as it was supposed to be kept, the 8th, 14th and 15th of each lunar fortnight, and then on special observance days [if anyone knows when these are, please tag me or direct message]. this is balanced practice
i understand the fervor its just susceptible to turning backward like a strong wind https://suttacentral.net/sn1.1/en/bodhi

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:48 pm
by lavantien
salayatananirodha wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:25 pm
why is it someone talks about their eagerness to keep strong sīla and their recommendation to do so and they get accused of being boastful, thats just not what this appears to be. i've had it happen to me too, i dont care about better or worse, i want the fruits of great practice. the more people keep strong sīla the more chance one could associate with someone keeping strong sīla, in turn inspired to keep strong sīla. my biggest obstacle i think is -- well, besides maybe lack of faith -- not getting to associate with others who keep strong sīla. my local friend told me he is 'forced' to kill bugs even tho he doesnt want to. he is averse to correction on the matter. going alone at this stage i just get swamped by māra and my practice stagnates
however, lavantien, i would be content if i were you with keeping the uposatha as it was supposed to be kept, the 8th, 14th and 15th of each lunar fortnight, and then on special observance days [if anyone knows when these are, please tag me or direct message]. this is balanced practice
i understand the fervor its just susceptible to turning backward like a strong wind https://suttacentral.net/sn1.1/en/bodhi
Thank for sharing your thoughts.

About your friend killing bugs, I think you can help him because he has confessed that he doesn't want to kill, that's a good sign and he probably open to a solution. He needs to push his wisdom pass certain threshold, after that the thought of killing or harming wouldn't even arise. For example, if a person knows & sees his body as a burden (perisable & it just running its own course - getting old, sick, die, unexpected accidents), as the same time he understands that in the long samsara he once a bug (a bug also want to live and doesn't want to die), at the moment of seeing that bug, instead of killing, the thought of compassion will arise, and he also understand that if he get bitten or infected or even die by that bug it's not a problem too, because his wisdom has helped him detach from his body. This need practice too, therefore in another context Sila, Samadhi and Panna help each other and need to be develop in parallel to a certaint extent. But at some point when you think you get stuck and cannot progress further, I think investing in your Sila maybe a super good solution, because a strong Sila helps meditation tremendously, it make the light nimita super bright and beautiful (according to A. Brahm in his Jhanas pdf), that mean you'll get to first Jhana easier (I'm working on this too), and that mean your Panna will grow easier.

Yes observance of Uposatha will always be good even if one doing it just once in a while. But to whom who serious in extingushment, he need to push the progress further. To finish with the samsara in this very life, I think one would need to put forth heroic-energy (viriya) perfecting his Sila, but not before his Panna grow past certain threshold, because before that he unlikely be able to keep his Sila unblemished. So I think 5 precepts is a good start, and we should work slowly to undertake 8 precepts as long as we're alive. I don't really encourage any rush here.

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:54 pm
by lavantien
Zom wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:32 pm
One may take precepts for practical reasons, but when one announces to everyone that he did, this itself (in most cases) is a matter of conceit and bolsters one's ego.
Thank for pointing out my mistake. After pondering about your words for quite some time. I've realized that I shouldn't post any more post like this. From now on I better focus on my practice and refrain from posting "personal experiences" type of posts.

(https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN8_30.html)
'This Dhamma is for one who is modest, not for one who is self-aggrandizing.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk, being modest, does not want it to be known that 'He is modest.' Being content, he does not want it to be known that 'He is content.' Being reclusive, he does not want it to be known that 'He is reclusive.' His persistence being aroused, he does not want it to be known that 'His persistence is aroused.' His mindfulness being established, he does not want it to be known that 'His mindfulness is established.' His mind being centered, he does not want it to be known that 'His mind is centered.' Being endowed with discernment, he does not want it to be known that 'He is endowed with discernment.' Enjoying non-complication, he does not want it to be known that 'He is enjoying non-complication.' 'This Dhamma is for one who is modest, not for one who is self-aggrandizing.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said.
(https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Dhp/Ch06.html)
Regard him as one who points out treasure,
the wise one who seeing your faults
rebukes you.
Stay with this sort of sage.
For the one who stays with a sage of this sort,
things get better, not worse.

Let him admonish, instruct,
deflect you
away from poor manners.
To the good, he’s endearing;
to the bad, he’s not.
:anjali: :group:

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:41 pm
by Khalil Bodhi
Anumodana for this post and all those like it. Even if everyone had less than pure motives I'd rather see this than the endless debates. :anjali:

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:14 pm
by manas
lavantien wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:05 pm
The only thing I can certain about is my Faith, I love the Buddha so much that when think about him I often cry :heart:

It can indeed happen. When I contemplate how distorted my view of reality was before, and how thanks to the Buddha's efforts in teaching the Dhamma, those who carefully handed those teachings down, and the living teachers who have managed to make the meanings clear to me, I am no longer so utterly blind and deluded - I too, can be moved in this way. So may those of us who, like myself, have still not crossed beyond any uncertainty, who have not as yet attained the Fruit of Stream-Entry, continue to strive, carefully keeping the level of Ariyan Sila we can manage - whether basic or more advanced - because it is the foundation upon which further progress in samadhi and panna can be made.
:anjali:

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:41 am
by Zom
why is it someone talks about their eagerness to keep strong sīla and their recommendation to do so and they get accused of being boastful

Because boastfulness is natural. This is what people do all the time everywhere.

However, if you read suttas, you ll see that ariyas (noble persons - and topic is about "emulating noble persons") do not do that, they don't speak about their "progress", "practice", "attainments", but tend to be silent about such matters. Why? Well, because of diminished conceit, I guess.

Just a couple of quotes:

Furthermore, a bad person speaks well of themselves even when not asked, let alone when asked. But when led on by questions they speak well of themselves in full detail, not leaving anything out. That’s how to know that this is a bad person.

Furthermore, a good person doesn’t speak well of themselves even when asked, let alone when not asked. But when led on by questions they speak well of themselves without giving the full details, leaving many things out. That’s how to know that this is a good person.



Then Hatthaka of Āḷavī approached the bhikkhu, paid homage to him, and sat down to one side. The bhikkhu then said to him:

“Friend, the Blessed One declared that you possess seven astounding and amazing qualities. What seven? ‘Bhikkhus, Hatthaka of Āḷavī is endowed with faith. He is virtuous and has a sense of moral shame and moral dread. He is learned, generous, and wise.’ The Blessed One declared that you possess these seven astounding and amazing qualities.”

“I hope, Bhante, that no white-robed layman was present?”

“No, friend. No white-robed layman was present.”

“That’s good, Bhante.”

Then that bhikkhu, having received almsfood at the residence of Hatthaka of Āḷavī, rose from his seat and departed. After his meal, on returning from his alms round, he approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and reported to him all that had happened.

The Blessed One said: “Good, good, bhikkhu! That clansman has few desires, since he does not want his inner wholesome qualities to be known by others.


There's also an interesting case in MN 31. Three monks, close friends, lived and practised together, discussed Dhamma from time to time together. However, they never shared their personal experience even among themselves.
https://suttacentral.net/mn31/en/bodhi

:reading:

Re: Let's emulate the Arahants, let's make everyday an "Uposatha day"

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 am
by Nwad
Dear Zom,

I would like to ask you a question that I hope you will understand the meaning.

As one who have the quality of knowing Canon very well, when you share suttas and encourage peoples to read suttas, do you do it out of conceit ?